Any news on the Battery's for 08

[terry.sc]

The OEM heatshrink is the heatshrink the cells are covered in as they come from the manufacturer.

In the case of sport packs the cells are sold only to the trade and aren't covered in heatshrink at all, just a cardboard tube. In those cases the whole pack must have a label on it by whichever company builds the pack. The pack assemblers label needs to be intact so the cells can be identified, if you take off the heatshrink holding the pack together there is no way of identifying the individual cells at all so the pack is now illegal for racing.

The rule is so the cells capacity can be identified, otherwise there is nothing to stop someone building a stick pack from last years IB4200s by replacing the cells heatshrink with a plain one so there's no way of identifying the cells.
It also stops any manufacturer putting together special team packs from unlabelled cells that aren't homologated.

The way the rule is written, taking it literally, only cells covered in cardboard will be allowed, and only when covered in heatshrink with a makers label on it. I suspect as any ready built pack of 3700s are allowed and individual cells can be identified as 3700s then they are likely to be allowed. It would have to be a very pedantic scrutineer to ban them.




And this does mean the BRCA considers GP3700s as a sport pack

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by super__dan

But doesn't Jim write the rules, so it's his interpretation that matters?

No, the members write the rules at the AGM, and it's up to the electric board to interpret them. BTW Jim officially just looks after the finances.

[jimmy]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Neil won too and added no weight to the car!!

I agree with you on your lipo love - but no, neil certainly did have added weight on his car.

[Jim Spencer]

As per Terry above..

Correct.

The wording is a touch out of date that's all.
In the past sport packs tended to end up as per the description above, quite often now the heatshrink is clear.. and yup I can buy GP37's as sport packs locally - they're good value too.
It's refered to as the Grandfather rule in the EB and the cut aff AmpHour has slowly increased alongside cell capacity, now for 2008 it's up to 3.7ah.

No I don't write the rules - but I do know the folks to ask, as do most of you - in addition though I tend to get exposed to most of the rules most of the time so get to know how things work, and why.

I'm 'technically' the Association Treasurer, and the treasurer for a couple of the sections including 1/12 circuit.
Part of the treasurers role is dealing with all aspects of the Insurance, the legal side, the sports liason side etc - hence the details of the rules and the knowledge of the specialist committee's such as the EB and I asked Paul too

As per about 20 posts ago, the wording needs a look at IMHO, as it's a touch confusing - made sense when 'sport' packs were packaged differently - just needs a small update - it'll happen.

[DCM]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

why wait till 2010? TC have em now!

Where are the rules for them, and a list of cells, or is this the same as the 10.5 debate....

[Chris Doughty]

Originally Posted by jimmy

I agree with you on your lipo love - but no, neil certainly did have added weight on his car.

your both right, he ran with and without weight, so did I, with weight was the best by far.

in the final we both added 15g on top of the servo, I think Neil ran this in round4.

if I could run the day again, I would add much more weight back into the car.

back on topic of 2008 batteries, I enjoy running LiPo, but I will just follow whatever the BRCA go with.

I will follow, I will not push to get something changed and potentially spoil a season for many people, I have talked to Paul about rule changes quite a bit and I know he thinks things through very clearly and has the interest of 'everyone' as much as possible.

I am sure there will be the odd big race during the year where LiPo will be allowed.

[jimmy]

Ah ok, I only ever saw his car with the lead on - not sure when he added it but I didn't look at it early in the day. he had lead in the rear triangles and a big lump atop the servo

[Chris Doughty]

lead in the triangles (and in front of the gearbox) is used everywhere no matter what cells are used.

he added 15g on the servo for round4 I think, I added 15g on my servo for the finals and it made a massive differance, I was actually able to complete a run almost error free

I will definately weight up my car to full SubC weight next time out.

[Northy]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

The rule is so the cells capacity can be identified, otherwise there is nothing to stop someone building a stick pack from last years IB4200s by replacing the cells heatshrink with a plain one so there's no way of identifying the cells.
It also stops any manufacturer putting together special team packs from unlabelled cells that aren't homologated.

Can't this still be done? A 'special' pack could be made of last years cells as long as the label on the outside said the cells under the heatshrink were 3700mAh or less?

Just being pedantic back

G

[super__dan]

Bit of an error on my behalf earlier, I got mixed a little. Apologies to Jim and or Paul (if needed). Any questions about EB matters should go to Paul Worsley direct!

[CharlieF]

Somewhat lost in this thread now - post 154 (Dom) and post 157 (Chris) - discussed cells for the end of season finals in 2008. Glad to confirm Chris's view that 2007 cells will be OK for these events.
Regards
Charlie

[Doomanic]

Thanks for that Charlie.
Callum will be pleased and my wallet is relieved.

[Gaz_Stanton]

Originally Posted by super__dan

Stanton did a whole nationals season on 2 packs the other year, with common sense and a fan you can do that IMHO, I'm considering doing it on 3 packs and using current cells for regionals only.

Yeah, totally. This myth of "needing" 6/8/10 packs is a hangover from the once-a-day-run yellow SCE's from years ago. Not really applicable now as providing there is time between rounds (like there is at a Nat, which is what we are talking about here) then you only need one charging whilst you use the other. I prefer having a back-up so 3 packs is all i use.

I wish everyone would stop whinging about minor details here!!! If you look at the bigger picture here i'm sure it has been a very good achievement by PW et al.

With reports of all these cells going pop in a big way, in these days of liability etc, there could easily have been a knee-jerk reaction to ban electric racing until these were made safe.
But IMHO the BRCA EB board, who only represent a very small share of the cell market, have actually managed to use the rules to influence the manufacturers to produce new verions of the cells seen as most risky, which should be safer for us all.
It means we can all carry on racing and has meant a positive step forward in reducing the risk of serious accident.
I'm sure a couple of new cells packs is cheaper than paying for an op to remove the shrapnal from your old ones...

[DCM]

I for one don't believe in any way that new cells are being made for our market, just that new sources and different lines of cells were looked at. And aybe with the market for NiMH getting smaller, manufacturers are willing to tighten up tolerances on a cell on the provision that they sell X thousands of units....

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by Northy

Can't this still be done? A 'special' pack could be made of last years cells as long as the label on the outside said the cells under the heatshrink were 3700mAh or less?

Yes it could be done as long as it's a proper manufacturers label on it, writing 3700mah on with a marker won't work If any manufacturer tried this and they were caught they wouldn't be in r/c racing any more.

Good luck to anyone who can remove a label off a sport pack and transfer it to a home built pack with no sign of damage to it.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

So to make it clear I have some old 3300 that where in a sport pack that I converted to side saddle will I be able to use these cells. Is it the paper sticker that needs to be on the cell that says all the charge and discharge rates cheers.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by jimmy

I agree with you on your lipo love - but no, neil certainly did have added weight on his car.

later on he did! over the normal they run

Originally Posted by DCM

Where are the rules for them, and a list of cells, or is this the same as the 10.5 debate....

never know as its a brca thing try www.brca.org!!

Originally Posted by DoughtyUK.net

lead in the triangles (and in front of the gearbox) is used everywhere no matter what cells are used.

he added 15g on the servo for round4 I think, I added 15g on my servo for the finals and it made a massive differance, I was actually able to complete a run almost error free

I will definately weight up my car to full SubC weight next time out.

chris we had two strips of lead on our b4, suck on its side between the battery strap post and rear triangle brace stuck to the outside of the cell brace each side of the cell ( can post pic if thats not clear) and 10 grams at the servo, over the worksop meetings this has proven the best choice and best handling

[mark christopher]

For use in the Touring Car Pro-Stock Class Only


1. Lithium Polymer (a.k.a. Li-Poly/LiPo) battery packs must have a hard, protective case that completely envelopes the cell(s). The maximum case size is as follows: -
Length: 139.0mm.
Width: 47.0mm.

Height: 25.0mm.

(Height excludes the mouldings on the bottom of the case that help locate the battery pack in the car).

2. The maximum retail price for the year starting 1st.Jan. 2008 is £80.00.

3. Individual cells used in the construction of the battery shall be rated at 3.7 volts nominal and the pack shall be 2 cells in series.
4. The battery pack shall have leads extending from the case for the positive and negative electrical connections using wire of adequate size to handle discharge rates acceptable to racing applications. Alternatively, the case shall have external connection points for these wires clearly marked positive and negative so the user can apply the lead wires.

5. The case must have the original suppliers label intact, stating the rated voltage and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 5,000 mah. The Brand name/logo shall be easily readable.

6. For 2008 there will be a rolling homologation list (as per. motors).

7. All LiPo packs must be charged with a LiPo-capable charger using the industry standard CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage) charge profile.

8. LiPo batteries may be charged to a maximum of 8.40V +/-0.04V. Overcharging is a serious safety hazard and will not be tolerated.



Please read the guide to safe use of LiPo batteries :- ‘Safe use of LiPo Batteries’ (above).

[Chris Doughty]

cheers Mark, I saw them, and I have finally worked out that it was you sitting behind me, damn im slow on the uptake! haha.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by DoughtyUK.net

cheers Mark, I saw them, and I have finally worked out that it was you sitting behind me, damn im slow on the uptake! haha.

lol nice for somone to know it was not me!!
i was notthe driver of the b4 that was lee, i was sat back to back with you