PETROL PRICES

[cmgreen]

Originally Posted by mattr

Except most "brands" sell their fuel to anyone, not only their own fuel stations (which they don't own anyway, mostly franchises) even competitors "brands" buy some of their fuel from them as well as all the supermarkets. The only one who suffers if we (for instance) boycott Shell, is the poor sods who run Shell franchises. Shell probably won't even notice. As we have to buy fuel from somewhere, so the slack is taken up elsewhere (Tescos f'rinstance, who probably buy Shell fuel).

And FWIW, selling filling station fuel is a minuscule part of most oil companies business. Usually only a few % or less. Most of it goes to plastics and chemical production.
Last time i looked at any specific figures (BP i think) fuel sales, diesel and petrol, globally, was less than 2%

Solution is to drive less. Unfortunately, successive governments have made it financially impractical to have any sort of integrated public transport system, and made it socially desirable to have a posh shiny car.

So we are knackered.

Partly Dissagree, am sure if everyone filled up at, say shell, then the supermarkets will suffer, and i bet they will reduce there prices.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by Northy

Be careful tootling round in the soot chuckers at 2k rpm, you'll be bunging up the EGR valve and DPF

mine's approaching 300k now and gets hammered regularly. I dunno what it is, but it loves the revs. we have 2 mk4 golf tdi's and the 1 loves to rev and other falls off at 4k.

saying that mine (that loves the revs) doesn't smoke at all whereas hers smokes a fair bit on start up.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by Big G

Now the weather is improving and the clocks will go back shortly I'll be cycling to work. It's only 13 miles each way.

Already doing 10 each way when I'm on a day shift and I go the long route to meet someone to ride in with. Sometimes do a night shift on the bike also.

[bodgit]

You'll know when things are really bad when you see tandems going to work.
or even

[mattr]

Originally Posted by cmgreen

Partly Dissagree, am sure if everyone filled up at, say shell, then the supermarkets will suffer, and i bet they will reduce there prices.

Not enough to make a difference. And not for long enough to make a difference.
They don't have enough control over the price to not make a huge loss. Retailer mark up on fuel is only a couple of %. The people who effectively set the price are the taxman and the producer, so as long as fuel is being bought somewhere, the main "owners" of the price won't be affected. So prices aren't likely to drop more than a couple of pence.

[bodgit]

Originally Posted by cmgreen

Partly Dissagree, am sure if everyone filled up at, say shell, then the supermarkets will suffer, and i bet they will reduce there prices.

After the goverment take £3.83p tax per gallon for SFA out of a gallon of £6.58 diesel and the producers take £1.83pg out of which they pay their workers, the garage only makes 20plt out of which they have to pay for staff maintenance and other costs.
Its no good hitting the garages its HMG thats ripping us off.

[tisher]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Nothing is going to change for two reasons - we are all complaining about the price we have to pay to fill up. Stop filling up and it will change. If you can't afford to stop filling up, stop complaining. You might feel like you are being shafted, but you are bending over and making it easy!!

Secondly, we are using a resource that is running out. It will only ever get more expensive whatever the Government does.

some people have no choice we have to work also the resource is not running out thats what they want you to think 300 hundred years of oil still at least fuel will always be controled by goverments and big business to line there pockets. why do you think we have illegal wars over it all the time

[teambowen]

As for oil running out, I have read somewhere that the oil compamies are revisiting old empty reserves and finding more oil ???, and its not because oil extraction has improved dramitically.
It always makes me think how can oil the a by product of trees etc rotting over millions of year when it is as deep in the ground as it is.

Some experts say oil is a biproduct of the earths core cooling down and the oil is leaching from the earth liquid core.

Anyway enough of the science, i couldn't get my golf remapped last weekend. I was told it was myy golf's ecu was a version 16 which is encrypted. This means you have to hard wire the connector onto the ecu chip itself atm which was more expense and also the ecu had to be sent off.

bummer.
J

[racingdwarf]

Originally Posted by bodgit

After the goverment take £3.83p tax per gallon for SFA out of a gallon of £6.58 diesel and the producers take £1.83pg out of which they pay their workers, the garage only makes 20plt out of which they have to pay for staff maintenance and other costs.
Its no good hitting the garages its HMG thats ripping us off.

he's right, there is no money in selling petrol, most small village forcorts are gone or going out of buissness,there is no money in selling fuel, the last one I spoke to had to pay shell for every fuel delivery he had as it was delivered, about £24.000 a time I beleve he said, and pay staff, taxes and make proffit, cashflow nightmare.
The tax on fuel is huge and must be a huge money earner, as it has been pointed out that whatever we do they will not reduce it! in tanker driver strikes we had years ago they would send the army in to seize the tankers and drive them before they would reduce the price.

HMG is skint and needs to rape as mutch money out of us as they can

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by bodgit

After the goverment take £3.83p tax per gallon for SFA out of a gallon of £6.58 diesel and the producers take £1.83pg out of which they pay their workers, the garage only makes 20plt out of which they have to pay for staff maintenance and other costs.
Its no good hitting the garages its HMG thats ripping us off.

As i said before as much more professionally put by bodgit. The tax man is responsible for the raping in broad daylight of every person that uses the pumps. i would love to cycle to work, but some of my work is in a van, so cant. Stop the Tax man/government or carry on being raped at "pump" point!

[cmgreen]

Originally Posted by mattr

Not enough to make a difference. And not for long enough to make a difference.
They don't have enough control over the price to not make a huge loss. Retailer mark up on fuel is only a couple of %. The people who effectively set the price are the taxman and the producer, so as long as fuel is being bought somewhere, the main "owners" of the price won't be affected. So prices aren't likely to drop more than a couple of pence.

Very true. But in whole, who cares about the retailers? We see those 5p/10p/15p off per litre deals from super markets if we spend so much in store, so they must use fuel as a loss leader. I bet tho if every one used one supplier there would be an even more of a price war, thus making it better, only a small amount. At the other end we could just all boy cott filling up, thus not going any where.

I do agree its all the Goverments fault fuel is the price it is. but do we do anything about it??

[mattr]

Originally Posted by cmgreen

I bet tho is every one used one supplier there would be an even more of a price war

No there wouldn't. Retail fuel supplies in the UK are pretty much limited by processing capacity, so "all using one supplier" simply means that all the other suppliers sell their fuel to the "one supplier" that we are all using. Net effect on profits = zero. The whole thing of fuel supply is pretty much a cartel in europe. Most of the price is tax, and most of the suppliers sell to each other to ensure demand is met.
"I bet" doesn't carry much weight in business, unless you are a stockbroker.

And for all the "i need to drive to get to work" people. You'll find that somewhere between 75-85% of you don't. Obv. dependent on where you live/what you do.

It's something like 85% of all domestic/commuting car journeys in Europe could be replaced by walking, cycling, bus or train. It won't be long before its cheaper and easier to do that, rather than drive........

[racingdwarf]

LOL, If tmro morning everyone who possibly could left the cars parked and started to walk or cycle to work,shops etc the greens would be chuffed to bits......goverment would shit a brick at the amount of lost revenue, and would have to target other things very rapidly...20 fags £25, pint 10quid. and hmmm cycle tax

[Ant]

This makes interesting reading.....

http://www.energy.eu/

In some respects, the UK isn't that bad!!!!!

[racingdwarf]

Originally Posted by Ant

This makes interesting reading.....

http://www.energy.eu/

In some respects, the UK isn't that bad!!!!!

intresting, Something that I have wondered for a while and is shown on that website is why is desel always about 5p more per ltr than unleaded. looking at that site most countrys it's cheeper, and that to me makes sence as it's less refined, so why does it demand extra cost in the uk, is it a tax thing on dirty fuel??

[Col]

I may well be wrong...

Diesel used to be cheaper than petrol. This was when there were more petrol cars than diesels.
Petrol is now cheaper, but there are more diesel cars than petrol (I think)

I have no idea whether it's a tax thing or not.

[jimmyfish]

Originally Posted by mattr

No there wouldn't. Retail fuel supplies in the UK are pretty much limited by processing capacity, so "all using one supplier" simply means that all the other suppliers sell their fuel to the "one supplier" that we are all using. Net effect on profits = zero. The whole thing of fuel supply is pretty much a cartel in europe. Most of the price is tax, and most of the suppliers sell to each other to ensure demand is met.
"I bet" doesn't carry much weight in business, unless you are a stockbroker.

And for all the "i need to drive to get to work" people. You'll find that somewhere between 75-85% of you don't. Obv. dependent on where you live/what you do.

It's something like 85% of all domestic/commuting car journeys in Europe could be replaced by walking, cycling, bus or train. It won't be long before its cheaper and easier to do that, rather than drive........

Yes there would be a price war. So lets say sainsburys (or other retailer), suddenly reduce there price say by 5p, why do others follow suite, not because they want to, its to stay competitive.

Same goes for if we all used one supplier, do you think the other suppliers are going to stand about waiting for people to arrive at their forcourt? No, they will reduce and entice business in that way. So what you say on this is total bollocks.

You are right by fuel may be blended by one company but with different additives for certain retailers, Shell fuel is different to sainsburys, so it dont matter to the blender where we get our fuel from, but it will matter to the retailer.

[john333]

Originally Posted by Col

I may well be wrong...

Diesel used to be cheaper than petrol. This was when there were more petrol cars than diesels.
Petrol is now cheaper, but there are more diesel cars than petrol (I think)

I have no idea whether it's a tax thing or not.

You're right, if I remember Gordon Brown pulled a flanker with company car tax etc etc which made it cheaper to get a diesel car, then when there were loads on the road (and the ex company cars filtered down to private owners) he bumped up the price of diesel and generally pulled our pants down and rogered us

[superdez]

What do you expect guys? We bailed out the banks, principally because they lent too much on housing and in doing so they (the government and the BOE) embarked on a rampant program of money printing (quantitative easing) hence the £ has devalued 40% against the $ since 2008 and we have had 5%+ inflation p/a. Guess what crude oil is priced in?

It's not rocket science is it? There is of course other factors at play here, but really, that is the problem in a nutshell.

[mattr]

Originally Posted by jimmyfish

Yes there would be a price war. So lets say sainsburys (or other retailer), suddenly reduce there price say by 5p, why do others follow suite, not because they want to, its to stay competitive.

So a small, short term, local, loss leading price reduction will lead to cheaper fuel for all? Not really. It'll last a few weeks, then we'll be back where we started.

Originally Posted by jimmyfish

Same goes for if we all used one supplier, do you think the other suppliers are going to stand about waiting for people to arrive at their forcourt? No, they will reduce and entice business in that way. So what you say on this is total bollocks.

The suppliers don't own ANY forecourts worth speaking of, they are almost, without exception, franchises. The suppliers sell to anyone who will pay. So everyone jumping ship and all using Shell forecourts makes exactly eff all difference to BP, the total sales volume is the same, so Shell branded stations will simply buy BP fuel. Which they frequently already do anyway. All you will do is put BP franchises out of business.

Originally Posted by jimmyfish

You are right by fuel may be blended by one company but with different additives for certain retailers, Shell fuel is different to sainsburys, so it dont matter to the blender where we get our fuel from, but it will matter to the retailer.

If you are talking about the higher octane or V-Power type fuels, yes, they are different. The only problem is that well over 90% of the fuel sold in europe is boggo forecourt mix. With (despite the advertising) nothing special in it.