TLR 22 Build and Set-ups

[steveproracing]

its very rare i post setups on here but it appears some people are tiring of their mid motor losi as the cant find a setup that has good rear grip/balance in lower grip uk conditions. hopefully this setup will help restore the love for this awesome car
i was off work for the first six weeks of owning my 22 and was able to put many hours in testing the car mainly at batley buggy clubs outdoor track, a grass/astro track which at the min is bumpy/cut up and slippy as hell in places!!
i have experimented with every tuning option on the car including many piston oil combos inc 4,5,6 hole pistons tapers vs standard etc
the setup below is an absolute joy to drive, so forgiving, locked in and stacks of grip with no signs of any untoward behavior.
i am sure some will instantly dis the piston/oil choice but this wast derived from 60/70 hours at the track testing

the 4 deg squat is acheived by using the HRC 3deg shim with the HRC 0deg shim and the 3deg HRC insert. then just put a 1mm spacer under each side of the speedo/motor mount between mount and the chassis.


hope this helps someone
any questions feel free to ask

[Kommando98]

Steve,
Would this setup be good on a bumpy, medium grip clay surface?

[steveproracing]

Clay is not a surface we have much experience of in the uk unless we race abroad. So I cannot really answer that question. It's prob a little over damped and oversprung. If I were racing on a clay track I would prob start with this setup but with 25wt all round and a silver spring on front and maybe a grey spring on the back. But this is a guess. Not quantifiable information!

[Fatal1ty]

On a smooth clay track, you can use the kit Setup so far. Has a lot Steering, maybe out the turn a little bit loose on the rear! 1 step softer with the spring in the rear would be good.

On a rough-dusty track, all around 1 softer, with 54 (holes) plates. On tower in front nothing under ballstud!

Working great!

[Kommando98]

Originally Posted by steveproracing

Clay is not a surface we have much experience of in the uk unless we race abroad. So I cannot really answer that question. It's prob a little over damped and oversprung. If I were racing on a clay track I would prob start with this setup but with 25wt all round and a silver spring on front and maybe a grey spring on the back. But this is a guess. Not quantifiable information!

Thanks Steve. We had a new track open up here and I'm the only one with the 22 in mid motor form so I'm kind of chasing the setup myself. It still isn't a firmly packed surface so there can be a layer of dust on top at times and other times after being swept and watered it can be clay-like. I think I'm going to give your setup a try and work from there.

I have a modified setup from Frank Root's setup that works okay but I have to be really careful when driving the car and I can't really toss it around the track aggressively, which I'm going to have to be able to do in order to keep up with the fast guys here.

[Kommando98]

Originally Posted by Fatal1ty

On a smooth clay track, you can use the kit Setup so far. Has a lot Steering, maybe out the turn a little bit loose on the rear! 1 step softer with the spring in the rear would be good.

On a rough-dusty track, all around 1 softer, with 54 (holes) plates. On tower in front nothing under ballstud!

Working great!

Oh okay thanks. I started with Frank Roots OCRc setup and it was okay, a little loose in the rear so I stood up the rear shocks and that helps.

Right now my setup in really hurting on forward traction and I can't get back on the throttle nearly as fast as the rear motor guys, anyone know any changes I can make to improve that? I was thinking of adjusting the anti-squat in the rear but not really sure the right way to go about doing that.

Also, I have a 3.5 deg HRC rear toe block that I haven't installed yet, would that be an upgrade over the kit 4.0 deg LRC for a semi-dusty clay track (med traction)?

[AfroP]

If your having problems up against rear motor cars why not rebuild your 22 to rear motor?

[Bratpack]

What shims should I use on the HRC 4 degree?

[Fatal1ty]

On low-grip tracks, you got more traction with 0° antisquat but it decreases the handling over rough parts and bumps! Softer in the rear would be also thing to try.

[andys]

Ran my mid motor 22 on grass / astro at batley for the first time today.
Ran kit setup, but with 25wt oil all round, 54 piston in rear, 55 in front. Orange springs to front for the last runs, yellow kit to rear. 3 degree anti squat.

Car was pretty poor. Couldn't get the power down on the astro at all. Trying to bring the throttle in on anything other than a straight pointing car ended badly.

New tyres helped a bit ( schu yellow spikes ) but all in all, not great.

Thinking from fellow racers on the day is I need :

HRC block
White springs to rear
Green springs to front

Anything else that will help on this surface ?

As a test I ran my X6 in round 3, same motor speedo, tyres etc and I could really nail it out of every corner, no problem to drive quickly. So my 22 setup needs work, it was really hard to drive quickly as I had to be so gentle with the power....

[ashleyb4]

I also had the same problem I tried lots of things in the end i went to 6 hole pistons as my car felt very unreactive on the bench. And this is where im at currently and feel happy with it in damp conditions on grass and astro track.



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Ash

[Kommando98]

Originally Posted by AfroP

If your having problems up against rear motor cars why not rebuild your 22 to rear motor?

I wanted to give it a fair shake first...just because I don't have the right setup now doesn't mean that it's not possible to get it, that's why I was asking the question.

[Kommando98]

Originally Posted by Fatal1ty

On low-grip tracks, you got more traction with 0° antisquat but it increases the handling over rough parts and bumps! Softer in the rear would be also thing to try.

How do I achieve less anti-squat (more squat) with the rear motor? Changing the shims?

[andys]

Steve.
Didnt see your set up post when I posted !!
Have now ordered all the bits I think I'll need

Cheers
Andy

[Bob_Zahn]

Has anyone tried the mid motor car with cut bladders like the team drivers are doing with the rear motor car?

I haven't seen anyone mention it on these threads but it is all they are talking about on the U.S. threads.

I cut some spare bladders over the long weekend and have them installed to try this week. Shocks don't feel so bound up with the stock 4 hole pistons.

[ottoswe]

kommando:

dont know if the mid motor will build properly if you remove the schims but no schims will give you more forward bite.

[Kommando98]

Originally Posted by ottoswe

kommando:

dont know if the mid motor will build properly if you remove the schims but no schims will give you more forward bite.

Okay thanks I might have to try that today

[Kommando98]

So I went to the track today (new clay track that is just starting to get it's pack but with a layer of dust on top) and played around with the anti-squat on my mid motor. Started at the kit 1 degree and ended up with 4 degrees on anti-squat and was VERY happy with the forward traction with 4 degrees. I also added the 2-4 gram weights to the mid motor weight kit for a total of 58 grams in the rear and my car was HOOKED up.

I was getting better forward traction than the rear motor guys who were just scrambling through different tires and anti-squat settings just trying to get rear grip.

Next time I go I am going to drop in the 3.5 degree HRC toe block and see how that feels, then play around with the 5 degree and 0 degree caster blocks.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Sounds good Kommando98

You'll need to post your full setup here please.

I've recently swapped to the 5 deg caster blocks and prefer them.
Rather than running the stock 20 deg kickup + 10 deg blocks, I've increased the kick angle to 25 but reduced the caster to 5 degrees.
The difference is that there is less weight shift forward going into the turns so it feels more balanced.
For me, the corner exit is smoother although entry felt a little sharp for the first few turns but it wasn't worrying - just you could feel it was carving a slightly earlier turn and felt more positive.

Would definitely recommend playing with the caster angles and kick angle shims as these have a noticeable effect on corner entry and exit.

[fastinfastout]

Originally Posted by Kommando98

So I went to the track today (new clay track that is just starting to get it's pack but with a layer of dust on top) and played around with the anti-squat on my mid motor. Started at the kit 1 degree and ended up with 4 degrees on anti-squat and was VERY happy with the forward traction with 4 degrees. I also added the 2-4 gram weights to the mid motor weight kit for a total of 58 grams in the rear and my car was HOOKED up.

I was getting better forward traction than the rear motor guys who were just scrambling through different tires and anti-squat settings just trying to get rear grip.

Next time I go I am going to drop in the 3.5 degree HRC toe block and see how that feels, then play around with the 5 degree and 0 degree caster blocks.

I'm struggling to understand how going from 1 to 4 degree anti-squat gave you better forward traction!

how I understand it, if I want better traction coming out of a corner, or straight, I would want 0 or minimal anti-squat, to encourage the rear end to squat, hence more weight transfer, hence more rear traction. Maybe I'm in the wrong sport if I cannot understand a simple concept like antisquat!