TLR 22 Build and Set-ups

[Chris56]

Originally Posted by fastinfastout

I'm struggling to understand how going from 1 to 4 degree anti-squat gave you better forward traction!

how I understand it, if I want better traction coming out of a corner, or straight, I would want 0 or minimal anti-squat, to encourage the rear end to squat, hence more weight transfer, hence more rear traction. Maybe I'm in the wrong sport if I cannot understand a simple concept like antisquat!

According to the XXX-Cr manual, having more anti-squat will increase intital steering and forward traction. Running less anti squat (or even pro-squat) will give you more on-power steering

[steveproracing]

The more antisquat the less the car squats under power

When accelerating weight transfers from front to rear. The less the car squats the more of that weight is transferred to the wheels, increasing forward traction
Squat absorbs quite abit of this weight transfer. Therefore the more the car squats the less weight is transferred to the wheels resulting in less forward drive!!


Less antisquat creates more sidebite as when the car squats in a corner centrifugal forces are greater causing more lateral weight change to load up the tyre creating more lateral grip from the tyre ( sidebite)


So to summerize.
More antisquat = more forward drive
Less antisquat =. More sidebite

Hth

[Reevsey]

My lastest base set up

Front
20 deg kick up
10 deg caster
front link - long tower + 1mm spacer & 1mm spacer hub
Green Spring/35w/1.2mm 6 hole
Shock position middle wishbone Middle tower

Rear
1 deg anti squat
3.5 HRC deg toe in
short wheelbase
Rear link 2-C 2mm spacer tower 3mm spacer hub
rear roll bar 0.9mm
yellow spring/32.5w 1.3mm 6 hole
JC 7inch V wing full gurney

104g rudebits weight under lipo
50g losi rear weight kit

Si

[DCM]

What is the difference between running 20' and 25' rake shim in the front?

[Reevsey]

Originally Posted by DCM

What is the difference between running 20' and 25' rake shim in the front?

It effects total caster 20 kick and 10 deg caster = 30 in total
It will handle in a different way than say 25 kick and 5 caster = 30 in total

This can change the front of the car alot

[DCM]

I know that more rake/less caster will handle differently than less rake/more caster, more caster gives you more exit steering, less gives you more turn in, but what about rake?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Rake will affect the amount of weight shift forward under deceleration - just like anti squat but in reverse.
More rake = less weight shift forward
Less rake = more weight shift forward

This will be more noticeable on natural deceleration as opposed to hard braking (IMO)

I've changed from 20/10 to 25/5 and feel that the car doesn't load up in the corners quite so much and is easier to drive through and out.

Like Si says - worth playing with as it does have a noticeable effect.

[Dombrasky]

Would more rake stop traction rolling? as on my first outing with the car i was having to drive slower to stop it rolling over,although it was hot and dry and i had new tyres
on, i could not drive as aggressively as i would normally with a b4

[till]

could you explain rake and where i adjust it for somone who hasn´t got the best english =)
cheers
Till

[Mugenextreme]

Originally Posted by DCM

What is the difference between running 20' and 25' rake shim in the front?

Till, i may stand corrected but i think its to do with the kick Angle on the front of the car. Looking at the setup sheets it states Kick angle 20' 25' 30' which would tie in with what the lads are talking about above with the 20' and 25'.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

@Mugenextreme - 100% correct sir!

@Till - the rake is the front kick angle on the front wishbones. It is a functon of the bent angle on the chassis plate itself and the plastic spacer that fits between the chassis and the front pivot block. The flat plastic spacer does not alter the kick angle so it remains at the standard chassis 25 degree but the wedge plastic washer reduces the overall kick angle by 5 degrees to 20 degrees overall

@Dombrasky - I wouldn't have thought so. The difference that the kick angle has is (IMO) a fine tuning aid - traction roll would be caused by something more drastic. Post a little bit more about your setup and the track surface that you are running on and maybe someone here can help shed some light for you. Possibly also think what is different between your B4 and your 22 and maybe the answer will lie around there??

[steel]

As above any help appreciated

Mark

[steveproracing]

Look back at my setup on this thread. Approx 1 page back. It may look wrong on the damping but I have put many hours on this track with my 22. It really works. I know at least 3 batley regulars and 1 southport member that have switched to this and agree it's really easy to drive!!

[steel]

Cheers for that steve looks a lot different to my southport set up but i will give it a go

Mark

[steveproracing]

Am sure it will be really different!! Batley at the min is really slippy. It's cut up on the grass and the astro is like ice!!

[fastinfastout]

Originally Posted by steveproracing

The more antisquat the less the car squats under power

When accelerating weight transfers from front to rear. The less the car squats the more of that weight is transferred to the wheels, increasing forward traction
Squat absorbs quite abit of this weight transfer. Therefore the more the car squats the less weight is transferred to the wheels resulting in less forward drive!!


Less antisquat creates more sidebite as when the car squats in a corner centrifugal forces are greater causing more lateral weight change to load up the tyre creating more lateral grip from the tyre ( sidebite)


So to summerize.
More antisquat = more forward drive
Less antisquat =. More sidebite

Hth

Thank you for your 101 lesson in antisquat

I was always under the assumption that the more the rear squats, the more rear traction, but the opposite is true. You learn new things everyday!

[shark]

Originally Posted by Reevsey

My lastest base set up

Front
20 deg kick up
10 deg caster
front link - long tower + 1mm spacer & 1mm spacer hub
Green Spring/35w/1.2mm 6 hole
Shock position middle wishbone Middle tower

Rear
1 deg caster
3.5 HRC deg toe in
short wheelbase
Rear link 2-C 2mm spacer tower 3mm spacer hub
rear roll bar 0.9mm
yellow spring/32.5w 1.3mm 6 hole
JC 7inch V wing full gurney

104g rudebits weight under lipo
50g losi rear weight kit

Si

Mornin Si just wondered what anti squat you run with the above set up ? Thanks

[dirk702]

Originally Posted by shark

Mornin Si just wondered what anti squat you run with the above set up ? Thanks

And Mid motor or...
And Clay or...

[Dombrasky]

[QUOTE=Gnarly Old Dog;494666
@Dombrasky - I wouldn't have thought so. The difference that the kick angle has is (IMO) a fine tuning aid - traction roll would be caused by something more drastic. Post a little bit more about your setup and the track surface that you are running on and maybe someone here can help shed some light for you. Possibly also think what is different between your B4 and your 22 and maybe the answer will lie around there [QUOTE]

Thinking more about what you said Gnarly,Im gonna try a longer front link and maybe 2mm under rear tower link to stop rear rotation
If this doesnt cure it, il post my setup,its on grass- astro by the way

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Longer front link for sure . I run a long front link almost always - only going to a shorter one in the wet and slippery.

Also - 2mm under the link on the rear tower is a good move - but I do run the rear link short - with the outer in either the E position or the B - with 2 or 3mm under the ball stud at the wheel.

If you're running Schumacher minispike tyres - cutting an outer row off the rear will help reduce traction roll without affecting forward drive noticeably.

The other thing would be that the kit front spring is (IMO) far too soft for UK style high-bite tracks. I would recommend swapping this out for a green front spring to begin with - if your traction roll is induce by the front end being too soft (spring along with short front link), changing both of these might well get you a long way towards sorting the car initially for you.
HTH