Why no spec classes in the UK?

[dodgydiy]

spec classes are always more expensive. to be competetive people buy varous different makes of motor and speed control to see which is faster, they buy more expensive batteries, they change tyres more frequently, basically anything that can give an advantage is done at whatever cost. in the 27 turn days people would buy boxes of motors to pick out the best, selling the remainder on to others, use at least two if not three motors per meeting, change tyres every race and severely abuse their batteries, making their lifespan very short. their cars were much faster than the average club racer and still legal.....

[claymoreman]

those that want to waste money on buying a box full of motors abuse there batteries to get the winning edge are the ones that it will cost the most the idea behind a specced class is to get people into the sport on a reasonable budget that gives close racing. If you feel the need to be one of those people who want to do the above then why dont you just run a mod class only. Specced classes need to be policed in some form or another or it is open to abuse. One way of policing it would be at registration of a specced class the cars are placed in secure area or a seal placed on the motor. If people wanting to run specced classes are not willing to police or scrutineer the class then it will always be on a road to fail as a class. If people have to/ or are willing to cheat to win a spec class it just proves they feel the sport doesnt need the future racers.

clubs need to start the ball rolling running specced classes for it to grow if no clubs are willing to start the ball rolling then its just another forum for peoples pov wasted

[danDanEFC]

We have ran a 10.5 blinky buggy class at Southport for 2 years, it has grown each year.

[mark christopher]

I race an indoor spec class on road, and it costs more, you have to keep on top of your motor and batteries.

I race off road and have had the same motor batteries and speedos for the last 3 hears, simply because I have more power than grip. The moment you have more grip than power is when things start getting pushed to the limit.

I would think the reason its not used is because no one has been the the agm with a good proposal or no one wanted it.

[Ritchie T]

Spec classes are crap. 17.5 buggy is big in America and you should see the cash they drop on a buggy making it lighter etc. Don't get me started on gt12 'cost effective racing', sure if you want to be mid pack

Getting on the road to diluted classes is a horrible idea. If you've ever watched an event on liverc its a chore... expert buggy, intermediate buggy, sportsman buggy, open buggy z zz zzz

[Rocking Donkey]

People who have been racing for a long time will remember many spec classes come and go... silver can, 27t, 13.5t etc. Usually when they start they are cheap and fun, then they get more serious and problems start.

I was never the best driver, and didn't have the deepest pockets. I got really frustrated by people who were worse than me beating me because they had better/more expensive equipment which gave them more power...and this is really the point.

For me, the cheapest and most inclusive form of racing is mod. I can always get a faster motor in mod, and know that the people who consistently finish above me do so because they are better drivers than me. I have no excuses, and no bitterness.

The downside is that the faster you are going, the bigger the event you have when it all does go wrong!

[iank55]

I keep reading 'cheaper' in posts... not it isn't or wouldn't be.

Modified 10th Off Road today is the fairest it has ever been. The reason for this, as Mark Christopher said, is that there is more power available than grip. This is the case even running cheap gear.

In my 4wd I use a £30 motor, £50 speedo and £25 lipo. This set provides me with as much (probably more tbh) power than I am able to handle. My car is as fast as the top guys and they beat me because they set up their cars better and drive better.

If it were a spec class, it would no longer be possible to retain the same level of competitiveness on the same budget. There would be an advantage in running the latest greatest electrics, because in a reduced power class the extra edge of the best gear is usable, even for those with more money than talent.

[claymoreman]

loving the people who posting saying I like the pure mod racing even though I get hammered cos I got a fast mod motor but I cant drive it because I cant set up my car. specced classses are expensive .

People make specced classes expensive for themselves
does the latest speedo, motor or batteries magically make everyone that magical driver who can all of a sudden do the best lap time after time???

[Jez]

spec/stock class doesn't have to be expensive to be competitive.at yorcc they run a 20 turn saturn sealed can 2wd class with a variety of chassis and electrics.the guy that won this seasons championship won using a bmax2 v1 and an mtronics speedo.most other cars in class cost more than that guys whole set up.same guy even ran a holiday buggy and qualified 4th in A final.car cost £78 again with mtronics speedo.you don't need the best to be the best.slow can be fast,just utilise your power in the correct way and drive within your cars' limits.

[Col]

www.yorcc.org.uk/about

540 Sealed Can Brushed (2wd) / 17.5T Brushless (2wd & 4wd). These classes are aimed at newer / younger drivers and those who want a slower and simpler racing pace (though the lap times after often close to some Modified racers). The 540 motors should be sealed can 20 turn brushed (eg HPI Saturns) in 2WD cars. 17.5 brushless motors must have speedos running in “Blinky” mode i.e. no timing advance or power boosts.

[jcb]

I quite liked racing my 2wd in a stock class back when we had 19turn brushed motors.

Seem to remember the racing being closer and in a mixed ability heat there was a reduced chance of lapping less experienced drivers as with a slower car they made less mistakes.

I'm not really sure if it was any difference price wise to racing mod, just that the money went on different things.


At Norfolk Buggy Club we don't cater for a stock class, only recommending that new drivers purchase a milder motor like a 10.5 or 13.5 until their ability improves. If numbers and interest was there it would be something that we'd consider, but at the present time everyone seems happy running to mod rules.

[Justingt5]

Interesting thread this - I have thought about this issue for a bit and come up with most of the pros and cons already listed, to be the honest only way around this issue I found was to utilise "RTR" cars for spec/RTR classes, that takes away a fair amount of the the issues people raise with motor and speedo combos.

Make it dead simple - STOCK RTR chassis/Motor/ESC/Shocks - Tyres/Servo/Battery/Radio all free to use what you want. Tyre wars will always exist and servo and radio can make a much bigger difference to your driving than motor and speedo in my opinion.

This would be a cheap way into racing, as there are a number of very very cheap buggies out there.

Sure people are going to say "but yeah each RTR has a different turn/kv motor". It would not take long before people tested them out and chose the fastest/best one then everyone would just follow suit so then you make the class specific for that car, then one heat for all the others. Over time Manufactures could always change the RTR motor to fit with what is popular.

Someone suggested and ECX TORMENT cup to run alongside the short course nationals and I thought that was a brilliant idea, the truck is cheap enough and capable enough to race at a novice level with, then if they get into it they can progress into the main 2/4wd SCT classes which are effectively MOD classes.

[Rick-J]

Listen to this about stock vs Mod. Interesting points but he does go on a bit but worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muGIoxPxCKw

[mrspeedy]

If anyone doesn't think a spec class works then go along to any GT12 meeting and see how close and fun the racing is !!!

[Chris Elworthy]

I'm glad this thread has created some good debate.

Good video Rick



Chris

[SlowOne]

Why create a class for everyone when you can just create a class for anyone?

If people think that (say) 10.5 blinky is a good way for new drivers to learn their craft and car set-up, then make it clear at your meeting that the highest placed 10.5 car will receive a prize of (say) a set of tyres and a big trophy.

Please note that in the US those Spec classes run mainly at Clubs. There are no Championships at stake for the Spec classes in the US.

Anyone can now enter that class and race it if they choose to, and anyone can win the prize. That will encourage people who simply want to run something lower-powered to do so. Since there is nothing riding on it in terms of a Championship, and since it is just there in amongst the Mod cars that do compete for a Championship, it will attract those who want to run it, and not people who want to win it at all costs.

It isn't the Spec classes that create cost, it is the fact that we are racing. We do almost anything we can to win in racing, it's just that with unlimited motor power that area is not an issue. Constant development, testing time and costs (recovered when you buy a kit!), new bits every week, new cars every year, new tyres every run, etc. are all part of racing. Spec classes may not seem to be cheap, but they are no more expensive than Mod classes overall.

What does reduce costs, a lot, is lower power. By offering a prize for the highest finisher using a lower-power motor you attract those who want to save money without bringing in those who want to win a set class. After a while it all settles down and drivers find themselves in the right heat for their talent due to their grading and points scored.

Don't create a class, create recognition for people who drive in the main field with a specific motor that is defined and listed in BRCA EB rules and can be checked at scrutineering.

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by Rick-J

Listen to this about stock vs Mod. Interesting points but he does go on a bit but worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muGIoxPxCKw

Wow 70 amps
He'll that's mental, accident waiting to happen

[DCM]

Just to prove a point, as Mark, in my 2wd and 4wd buggy I have more power than I need, not running in blinky though although under certain conditions I have. In my 1s GT12 'spec' class, I tried running 'budget' 1S lipo and it was good for the first 2 mins but after that, where everyone else was running a better lipo, the voltage dropped off to much so, to keep up I had to invest.

Don't get me wrong, compared to the past, keeping up in spec is a lot cheaper than buying 12 packs of batteries for one full years competing and rebuilding/replacing stock motors regularly but, compared to running in the open class now, you still go through more motors and cells in a year than I have in 5 years of open class.

I do get the idea of using a budget motor that you can buy at a club for their champs, as to be fair you can easily cook the motor so you got to treat it right. As for new members we advise a 10.5 now as that can be run in blinky whilst they learn then the use of boost and turbo as they get to grips. I am just glad touring car died here as that wasn't cheap racing.

[Ritchie T]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Why create a class for everyone when you can just create a class for anyone?

If people think that (say) 10.5 blinky is a good way for new drivers to learn their craft and car set-up, then make it clear at your meeting that the highest placed 10.5 car will receive a prize of (say) a set of tyres and a big trophy.

Please note that in the US those Spec classes run mainly at Clubs. There are no Championships at stake for the Spec classes in the US.

Anyone can now enter that class and race it if they choose to, and anyone can win the prize. That will encourage people who simply want to run something lower-powered to do so. Since there is nothing riding on it in terms of a Championship, and since it is just there in amongst the Mod cars that do compete for a Championship, it will attract those who want to run it, and not people who want to win it at all costs.

It isn't the Spec classes that create cost, it is the fact that we are racing. We do almost anything we can to win in racing, it's just that with unlimited motor power that area is not an issue. Constant development, testing time and costs (recovered when you buy a kit!), new bits every week, new cars every year, new tyres every run, etc. are all part of racing. Spec classes may not seem to be cheap, but they are no more expensive than Mod classes overall.

What does reduce costs, a lot, is lower power. By offering a prize for the highest finisher using a lower-power motor you attract those who want to save money without bringing in those who want to win a set class. After a while it all settles down and drivers find themselves in the right heat for their talent due to their grading and points scored.

Don't create a class, create recognition for people who drive in the main field with a specific motor that is defined and listed in BRCA EB rules and can be checked at scrutineering.

Theres 17.5 club, regional & nationals in the US

[madmax]

chris

southport is running its spec class this weekend why not pop down and have a look