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View Poll Results: What you guys recon -
Yes - 4wd designed cars should be allowed to run as 2wd cars 105 39.47%
No - 4wd designed cars should not be allowed run as 2wd cars 107 40.23%
Not bothered 54 20.30%
Voters: 266. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 29-07-2013
kyoshozx5 kid kyoshozx5 kid is offline
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Default When is a 2wd not a 2wd

having watched some recent racing in 2wd there seems to be a trend towards running a 4wd car with just the driveshafts removed but the rest of the drive train left in tact. this seems to be a distinct advantage in high grip situations especially when the diff is still in place as you can see the car fly and dip like a 4wd as well as being far smoother into the turn. imho it would work in a gyro style (but could be wrong). what is everyones take on this and should the brca ban it. if so then how ???
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  #2  
Old 29-07-2013
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as long as only 2 wheels are driving then I don't see a problem.

A 4wd running as a 2wd has disadvantages as well like kick up at the front and weight issues etc etc etc.

If you ban a 4wd with shafts removed, then you would need to ban all conversions like the DB1 as that's similar. then if you ban conversions would that mean vega centro etc come in to a ban..??

Personally a 2wd is a car that has 2 wheels driven regardless of the drive train.

simple.
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  #3  
Old 29-07-2013
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You can't use the DB1 as an example of a 4wd!! It's simply a '2wd' car as it has NO front drive at all or even a front gear housing, it's a conversion like all others.

I think in another section a rule was changed to say a 2wd car can only have one gear housing, but I may be wrong
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  #4  
Old 29-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TARTMAN View Post
as long as only 2 wheels are driving then I don't see a problem.

A 4wd running as a 2wd has disadvantages as well like kick up at the front and weight issues etc etc etc.

If you ban a 4wd with shafts removed, then you would need to ban all conversions like the DB1 as that's similar. then if you ban conversions would that mean vega centro etc come in to a ban..??

Personally a 2wd is a car that has 2 wheels driven regardless of the drive train.

simple.
Damn right dude 2wd is 2wd
It's driver skill not technology that creates winners
Don't need more rules
You just need more skill
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Old 29-07-2013
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Does that mean if you break a 4wd drive shaft you have to pull off as its no longer 4wd?

What about running 2wd in a 4wd race? Break a center drive shaft and you have a 2wd.
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Old 29-07-2013
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People do run 2wd's in the 4wd class at 1/10th nationals...certainly not the norm, or frequently, more likely when circumstances have lead them there so they can at least keep racing on the day....and the only rule that comes in to play then (to my knowledge) is the minimum weight rule!

Clearly there is a potential disadvantage to it, particularly in low grip scenarios, so it's far less desirable! But the gap between 2wd and 4wd performance is not what it used to be when the grip is good...
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  #7  
Old 29-07-2013
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Interestingly, or not maybe, the micro section had a season where 4wd's with front drive shafts or front diff/front centre drive shaft removed became dominant in their 2wd class. The rules were subsequently written to state that only a stacked gearbox transmission was allowed in the 2wd class.

The argument here was that the disconnected front end of the transmission did give an advantage, and in fact I think at one point the rumours were that a one way diff was fitted backwards to give some sort of braking advantage or something (although I might have made that up completely from snippets of many random trackside chats that happened at that time about it) but you get the point!

I'm not sure that rule stills stands entirely, but for me there were/are other factors at play there....

The 2wd class in the micro section was, and still is, lacking in production race cars to fit into the class...so the rule book is being developed all the time in the hope it promotes the class and generates enough industry interest for manufacturers to take it up properly and create a fair class of 2wd micro racing...

At that point, the 4wd class had some reasonably well developed race cars competing...they maxed the cars out on wheelbase and track width, and were competing very closely as it was, and still is the main micro class.

The 2wd class at that time had no 2wd 'race' cars...only a few randomly built/converted 'toy' cars that happened to fit very loosely into the scrutineering box. Pretty sure Chunk (the first proper BRCA rule designed 2wd micro race car) didn't quite exist at that point.

Those 2wd 4wd cars with their developed design/proportions wiped the floor with the other 2wd's...so it was deemed unfair. The result was the Chunk coming to the front of it, and hopefully a more serious class that manufacturers can design properly for now...if they can find a market to sell them to!
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  #8  
Old 29-07-2013
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You cant group the DB1, Vega or Centro into this as they are a dedicated 2wd. They have no front gearbox, no front shafts etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TARTMAN View Post
as long as only 2 wheels are driving then I don't see a problem.

A 4wd running as a 2wd has disadvantages as well like kick up at the front and weight issues etc etc etc.

If you ban a 4wd with shafts removed, then you would need to ban all conversions like the DB1 as that's similar. then if you ban conversions would that mean vega centro etc come in to a ban..??

Personally a 2wd is a car that has 2 wheels driven regardless of the drive train.

simple.
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  #9  
Old 29-07-2013
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Default When is a 2wd not a 2wd - Poll

Lets have a vote....

I voted no - I am a traditionalist and dont want to see the death of the 2wd designed car.

T
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  #10  
Old 29-07-2013
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Bandwagon.com

Until the BRCA state 'Only cars marketed and sold as 2wd maybe used' then that's the way it will be.

Might as well open your debate (?) up to using a 2wd in a 4wd class providing the weight is right. Haven't got a 4wd?, don't race in that class....

Two sides to every story.

BTW the Xb4 in 2wd rocks! (as do the K1's and the B44.2!)
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  #11  
Old 29-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobber View Post
You cant group the DB1, Vega or Centro into this as they are a dedicated 2wd. They have no front gearbox, no front shafts etc.

Correct, all those a hybrid but pure 2wd based.
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Last edited by Col; 29-07-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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  #12  
Old 29-07-2013
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Will there be a follow up poll asking "should mid motor cars be allowed in 2wd?"
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  #13  
Old 29-07-2013
tony12795 tony12795 is offline
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ha ha ha ha I was waiting for that
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  #14  
Old 29-07-2013
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Having said all this not everyone has the money to spend on 4wd. I personally don't want to see 2wd go it's a good class aswell for new comers to start.
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  #15  
Old 29-07-2013
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The simple answer is to amend the rules to limit the distance the motor is allowed to be from the axel line (ie where the driveshafts and diff are).
You would not affect the postion of the motor ie mid or rear engined but would stop extreme front mid engined 2wd's.

The only problem with this is it limits innovation, but innovation does increase costs, not a simple question if you look at it in a bit of detail. Could maybe have a differant weight or limint tyre sizes, but this usually added cost too.

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Old 29-07-2013
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Or, 'lud, you could counter with a great car that can be used as a 2wd and a 4wd competitively, reducing the need to for two cars?.

This is the XB4, K1 and the B44.2.... maybe others.
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Old 29-07-2013
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I don't get this at all. I may of read this wrong but is a purpose designed 4wd buggy with the front drive removed faster than a purpose designed 2wd buggy running as designed. ?.
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  #18  
Old 29-07-2013
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If people would convert Touring cars and race them against 1/12 scales it would cause an upset to some my view on this would be im sure we would like to see no class getting messed about just have a nice time racing
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  #19  
Old 29-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudders View Post
Or, 'lud, you could counter with a great car that can be used as a 2wd and a 4wd competitively, reducing the need to for two cars?.

This is the XB4, K1 and the B44.2.... maybe others.
Or simply keep each class completely seperate as they were always intended to be.
What we have now is not far from being an open class. Surely not what was ever intended.
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Old 29-07-2013
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Threads merged. Some posts which no longer make sense have been deleted.
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