cautionary tale Lipo fire

[fidspeed]

Just a warning to al lipo users (most of us now)
On of our local drivers (a senior experienced member) dropped in to see us last night with a tale of woe

he had placed his batteries on charge in a lipo sack in his kitchen ready for racing popped to fuel station to fill his road car came back to find his house on fire .I have seen pictures it was a mess .Fire sevice estimated 15 more minutes and he would have been homeless insurance repairs will be thousands as the acrid smoke damage was extensive

the reason for the lipo fire is unknown it could have have been a faulty lipo or charger or charger setting or other other human error .We will never know and its not worth debating here IT HAPPENED!!
What we do know is he will never leave a lipo on charge unattended again and will ensure there in a lipo sack or pouch

regards dave Fid

[Aire valley]

That's almost unbelievable"...... and you say that the lipo was in a safe bag..? Probably never find out why, but would be really interesting to know..

[Jayk]

The error wasnt the fault itself, but leaving em charging unguarded.
The lipo bag probably did its job as a short term retardent, i dont know the safe usage of them or ip whatever but im guessing its not gonna put a fire out.

[fidspeed]

Originally Posted by Jayk

The error wasnt the fault itself, but leaving em charging unguarded.
The lipo bag probably did its job as a short term retardent, i dont know the safe usage of them or ip whatever but im guessing its not gonna put a fire out.

Yes you are quite correct it was just ,poor judgement at worst negligent at best, I wasn't wanting to start a debate, particularly just remind everyone how dangerous our particular use of lipos can be and what can result from being a little complacent at times or just momentarily "off guard"

Bee safe fellow racers having seen the photos I wouldn't wish that on anyone (self inflicicted and possibly preventable though it was)

dave fid

[OneKiwi]

IT happened at EOS as well

[mark christopher]

Hi Dave out of curiosity can you find out which charger was used?

[mattr]

I really really really really worry about people who think a Lipo sack is a suitable alternative to actually supervising your high discharge lipos during charging.

Guy I work with left his 6s cell charging in the garage while he went to pick his daughter up from nursery.

Lost the entire contents of a double garage.

Maybe this should be a sticky.

[Chris56]

Thanks for the "heads-up". I agree blame or cause shouldn't really be debated here, simply that it happened and the consequences can be pretty bad.

Having witnessed a LIPO fire a week ago, I know tat LIPO bags will only contain the fire for 5 seconds max - long enough to grab it and throw it out of harms way but not long enough to prevent considerable damage being done.

I often charge LIPOs at home and never leave the house when I do so. Due to recent events im considering using an aluminium box to charge them in (with the bag also) so that I can at least leave the room in confidence.

[mattr]

FWIW Lipo powered hybrids use around 15-40 kilos of Lipo cells, most have a dedicated temperature management system to stop them getting too hot OR too cold) only the very smallest piggy back off the AC/cooling system, they also have custom designed charge/discharge management systems (rather than a stock, generic Chinese circuit board), they also sit inside 30-50 kilos of high strength steel or composite armoured casings with what can only be described as blast vents in case of Lipo failure.

Yet people still rely on a Lipo sack.

[zoaman]

Its probably a good wake up call to all of us who don't take charging lipos seriously enough. now ive seen that picture I will make sure I take even more care(time) when charging them.
thanx for the heads up.

[fidspeed]

Originally Posted by zoaman

Its probably a good wake up call to all of us who don't take charging lipos seriously enough. now ive seen that picture I will make sure I take even more care(time) when charging them.
thanx for the heads up.

thanks fellas for the positive response from all of you that's all it is a stark reminder of what can happen it doesn't matter whose fault it was whether its faulty equipment or user error /awareness thats too blame

all the victims probably thought it wouldn't happen to them IT DID !

I think some of us have become a tiny bit complacent with the advent of lipos and the benefits and not so aware of the drawbacks

In no way am I suggesting cells were any less dangerous or lipos are inherently dangerous

thanks to all who have read this thread and be safe as you can

regards dave

[MattW]

Dave, I think you're absolutely correct about complacency having slipped in. The thread the other week about the BRCA rule update proves that for me. So it's good to just remind people that these things aren't 100% safe (and let's be honest, very few things are).

I'll be honest and say that I'm actually surprised there haven't been more "big problems" in the last couple of years.

LiPo fires WILL happen guys, lets just "do the right things" and hopefully the damage can be minimised.

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by Chris56

Thanks for the "heads-up". I agree blame or cause shouldn't really be debated here, simply that it happened and the consequences can be pretty bad.

Having witnessed a LIPO fire a week ago, I know tat LIPO bags will only contain the fire for 5 seconds max - long enough to grab it and throw it out of harms way but not long enough to prevent considerable damage being done.

I often charge LIPOs at home and never leave the house when I do so. Due to recent events im considering using an aluminium box to charge them in (with the bag also) so that I can at least leave the room in confidence.

Do not grab a LiPo sack with a problem in it and throw it anywhere. This advice assumes that you can disconnect it from the charger, which is usually difficult, and that you have somewhere to throw it that is in any way 'safe'.

By the vast majority, LiPos are used indoors, so there is nowhere to throw them. Make sure that at every meeting there are at least two buckets of (preferably kiln dried) sand available in the pit area. If a LiPo gets a thermal runaway, douse it in sand immediately, and then leave it alone for at least 15 minutes.

This idea that you can pick up a sack with a LiPO in it undergoing thermal runaway and transport it anywhere has already badly burned one racer - don't do it. Make sure that your meeting has easy access to fire buckets filled at least 75% with sand and at the slightest sign of a LiPo in serious distress, dump the contents on it.

This is clearly what did not happen at the EOS meeting pictured in the thread, hence the large amount of damage.

Originally Posted by MattW

Dave, I think you're absolutely correct about complacency having slipped in. The thread the other week about the BRCA rule update proves that for me. So it's good to just remind people that these things aren't 100% safe (and let's be honest, very few things are).

I'll be honest and say that I'm actually surprised there haven't been more "big problems" in the last couple of years.

LiPo fires WILL happen guys, lets just "do the right things" and hopefully the damage can be minimised.

That last line is the key - LiPo fires are entirely predictable due to the inability of the industry to manage completely the manufacturing process. As the fires are inevitable, prepare for the inevitable.

A sack holds thing up for enough time to get the bucket of sand and douse the fire. Be prepared!

[mark christopher]

Best thing I have seen is the turnigy lipo bunker. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...harge_box.html

Slow one is not a fan, but I use one at home, it controls any potential fire better than a sack, but it does vent the fumes, I'm sure the guy in Dave's 1st post would rather have had a house full of fumes over the fire.

Some will follow this with its faults (slow one) but sack or bunker I know which I trust I'm not sure if this bunker is ok for BRCA use, defo worth while for home use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rusH...e_gdata_player

The biggest failure of a lipo sack is the failure to put the lipo in fully and fully seal the Velcro.

[Chris56]

I have looked at them.

Slowone - for the record I am not advocating throwing the sack, just highlighting what somebody did when they saw the flames.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Thanks for the heads up everyone. I'd like to add a story warning you that LiPos aren't even always safe in a state of rest. A fellow club member had one of his LiPo batteries burst at night after it had not been used for three weeks!

As far as my knowledge goes, the battery was neither under or overcharged when it went into storage and there were no prior signs that the battery might have been damaged. I do know he demands a lot of his batteries (the electronics he runs and his driving style) and that it was not a very new battery, but the fact that it happened makes it a statistic possibility.

It's probably a (way) less likely scenario that it happens with a LiPo in rest, but I would NEVER EVER recommend you to store your LiPos in the open or in a LiPo bag. I use an Ammo Box to store my batteries, you could also use a small safe of course.

Speaking of the LiPo fires themselves, Lithium is an alkali metal. It reacts heavily to water (especially as temperatures elevate), but it cannot burn without any oxygen. However, the batteries may contain oxide materials, and in a fire may supply themselves with (limited) amounts of oxygen.

Anyway, what's important to know is that water won't extinguish the fire (and may in fact fuel a stronger reaction), smothering helps but may not instantly stop the fire (because of oxides in the battery), and lowering the temperature will decrease the speed of the reaction. And of course lastly, if you can contain the fire inside something (an ammo box, safe or something else), you can give yourself time to get away or cool the container (to try and reduce the severity of the reaction).

[/tobys]

So, whats the consensus on how to store Lipos? The realization that they can, in rare and unfortunate circumstances, spontaneously combust is enough for me to reconsider my current storage and handling.

Airtight, metal container for storage?
Where does this get stored, as we are told that they shouldn't be anywhere too cold (which rules out storing outside)?
Lipo pouch whenever connected to charger as a common sense approach to safety, rather than just to appease the race director (!)
Correct/Safest way to dispose of old lipos?
etc
etc

I think there is lots of good info/advice to be shared/discussed.

[Neil Skull]

Thanks for sharing Fidspeed,
I hope anyone thinking of leaving their lipo unattended will think twice!!
I don't leave any phone or laptop or anything on charge unsupervised! I wont even leave my phone on charge overnight! Thats wheter lipo or not! its just not worth the risk.

[Neil Skull]

I have never heard of a lipo igniting in storage before!!! that's worrying!
I know they can swell and fail if left in cold garage or hot tin shed.

I keep my lipos in an aluminium field box under the stairs away from heat extremes.

http://www.rcmodelcentre.co.uk/Alumi...prod_5228.html

[mark christopher]

If your that worried I defo would not store multi lipo in one container if one goes,you will have one hell of a chain reaction, also not in case sealed box, your them making a bomb. Something has to give under this pressure created.

Me I'll take appropriate care but I'm not going to loose any sleep.