Is this really off road?

racingdwarf · #1 23-09-2015

Just sat and watched some of the EOS and in the end thought why bother with off road cars? it was like watching 12th cars with jumps it was so quick and the grip so high,Is the upcoming worlds going to be as boring!

Why has it got like this? are the cars now so fast with lipo brushless that this sort of surface is the only thing they will work on, Have racers now got so hooked on consistency that they will only race on snooker tables
Years ago 10th died as touring cars surged in popularity with many drivers swapping off road for the carpet and tarmac, now we seem to be turning off road into touring cars.

Ashlandchris · #2 23-09-2015

Great question.

I agree that there weren't nearly enough lumps and bumps to keep it "edge of the seat" interesting.

At Batley we recently resurfaced the outdoor track with astroturf and there was a little bit of me that was nervous of this as I quite liked the fact that there were lots of different surfaces, lumps, holes etc. which could catch you out (but it was always the same for everyone).
Fortunately at Batley the astro was well laid and the sub layer has kept an imperfect surface meaning that you can still get caught out if you take a bad line - this can only be identified when racing begins. Yes, the grip is slightly higher (stay off the sand...) but it still feels like off road racing.
The ultra flat carpet surfaces do take a certain degree of fun out of it and though I am not for one minute saying that driving fast on a flat surface is any easier (I'd still be slow!), it is not as much of a spectacle. On lumpy stuff usually the same fast drivers will still win, just in a slightly more interesting way.

I know that there will be clubs that have to race on the given surface available - i.e. sports halls etc. and I am not criticising them (i.e. I occasionally travel to Manor RC down the M1 which race on carpet and that is great), but for a big event I prefer to see a challenging surface, rather than simply a challenging layout

I think I'm in a minority though as I know that there were lots of negative comments in the past from visiting drivers about the old Batley track - I just viewed it that it is the same for everyone so even though it was anything but a level playing field, it stayed as a level playing field (if you know what I mean)

Steve.T · #3 23-09-2015

I have some sympathy with your opinion. I think it stems from having more astroturf tracks these days than some of the old grass tracks of yesteryear

s22jgs · #4 23-09-2015

its just how things have evolved. Much like road cars. a mk1 escort was awesome, a modern car is wank, but we all drive them still.

J77MYF · #5 23-09-2015

Personally I much prefer an old school grass track over a super grippy modern astro track. I also like big jumps but a lot of people seem scared of those too.

mattr · #6 23-09-2015

We made rumble strips to spice up the carpet racing. (Can't drive outside here in the winter)
Just a piece of thin board covered in lumps and carpeted over.
Caught a few out.

Then the club closed.

Ashlandchris · #7 23-09-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattr

We made rumble strips to spice up the carpet racing. (Can't drive outside here in the winter)
Just a piece of thin board covered in lumps and carpeted over.
Caught a few out.

Then the club closed.

Can't drive outside in the winter? Come on, where's your sense of adventure?

(PS - I suspect this wouldn't be great on carpet)

mattr · #8 23-09-2015

Meh, maybe a metre of snow and daytime temps as low as -25.

It's more being able to stand around for any length of time rather than the equipment.

johnboy · #9 23-09-2015

Agree with the first post. Anybody seen the J concept turf nationals track again like EOS touring car track with jumps. Of course indoor you can't recreate bumpy off-road tracks but and least go multi surface to give a challenge. Think that's why in the UK Worksop works so well. Carpet and cork floor gives good grip without being over grippy. I for one couldn't be arsed with this gluing side walls on tyres because the grip was stupid.

bretts · #10 23-09-2015

I watched the EOS 2WD A Main which was quick but I do agree with everyone.

Is there a link to the 4WD Final?

Anyway, the Euros was great, the track surface really held up well. Well done to James and the rest of the RHR Team (including Vermin!)

Well, I really miss a nice summers day on a grass track such as Harrogate. Shame neither exist these days.

racingdwarf · #11 23-09-2015

I agree astro has a place, progress etc etc and indoor over winter carpet is great to keep us racing. But is were the hobby and the cars heading actually off road anymore?

trevron73 · #12 23-09-2015

Where was the Harrogate track ? Just wondered as i have been away from the hobby for 20 years and work nearby Harrogate ?

bretts · #13 23-09-2015

Harrogate had one main venue which was behind the Church in Beckwithshaw for outdoors. St John Fisher school was used for indoors and ever so oftern outdoors. They also ran meetings at the show ground sometimes.

Just looked on Google Maps at Beckwithshaw and you can still see the fenced off area and car park behind the church where the track and rostrum were. Happy times!! Sniff Sniff.

MattW · #14 23-09-2015

It was an indoor temporary track, tbh, it's no different to indoor temporary tracks have been in the main for as long as I can remember.

You can't fairly compare it to a purpose built permanent outdoor track.

Origineelreclamebord · #15 24-09-2015

IMO, the grip at the EOS is too much: Even in the A-finals you see the odd mistake with grip-roll, especially after landing those jumps without landing slopes (when a car bottoms out and destabilizes). If even they are having issues with the nature of the track, how are mere mortals supposed to battle closely and have an exciting race?

I think pretty much since the '13 Worlds, high profile events have generally been too much about high grip and/or jumps that are too demanding to land consistently. It's touring car racing with jumps and all too often battles are decided by crashes, not by ballsy overtakes. In the end for the average driver racing should be fun, and I'm not sure people are experiencing the most fun in their hobby when the track conditions make merely staying on the track so difficult that racing someone becomes a waiting game of the guy in front of you to crash out.

(And please see these comments seperate from my interest as the company selling a FWD Buggy. This is how I personally feel about things).

RobW · #16 24-09-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origineelreclamebord

IMO, the grip at the EOS is too much: Even in the A-finals you see the odd mistake with grip-roll, especially after landing those jumps without landing slopes (when a car bottoms out and destabilizes). If even they are having issues with the nature of the track, how are mere mortals supposed to battle closely and have an exciting race?

I think pretty much since the '13 Worlds, high profile events have generally been too much about high grip and/or jumps that are too demanding to land consistently. It's touring car racing with jumps and all too often battles are decided by crashes, not by ballsy overtakes. In the end for the average driver racing should be fun, and I'm not sure people are experiencing the most fun in their hobby when the track conditions make merely staying on the track so difficult that racing someone becomes a waiting game of the guy in front of you to crash out.

(And please see these comments seperate from my interest as the company selling a FWD Buggy. This is how I personally feel about things).

100% agree. I find it really unenjoyable to race on tracks that I feel I am just hanging onto the car and keeping it between the track markers waiting to either make a mistake myself or the guy in front to crash out. That is not racing IMHO.

It does not matter what level you are racing at, if half the field are regularly crashing on a feature then it is badly designed. Don't accept this view of "well you need to learn to drive better". I marshalled a feature at a track this year and I estimate at least 25% of the cars did not make it over successfully each lap over the entire meeting - it did not get better over the day and was probably worse in the finals as everyone started trying just a little bit harder.

As far as the World's track is concerned, I really hope they try a little harder than the warm-up track. You only need to look at the Silverstone and Maritime indoor tracks (and others I am sure) to see how it can be done.

Rob