more steering for 201

[Timee80]

Ran my 201 for the first time today at worksop and spent all day trying to find more steering. Better drivers than me also struggled. What needs doing to get more steering? Tried lee martins euros setup but didn't help me much.

[JustARcFan]

DO you have the rude bits weights?

[Timee80]

10g on nose, 85g around servo, 60g under lipo.

[JustARcFan]

Strange?

I have 20gr in the nose, 78gr under the servo and 80gr under the lipo.

The car is planted like this with very agressive steering.

What surface are you racing?

[Rich D]

Its rubberised cork at Worksop. I had the same trouble, an initial aggressive amount of steering then nothing mid corner and corner exit - difficult to drive smoothly compared to the similarly set up B4FT i ran last year for sure Strangly, the high speed steering didnt seem too bad, it was the low speed turn in. As if the turning circle was twice the size it should be.

Maybe with this info someone can chip in and offer some setup tips !

[DaveG28]

Have to admit, as much as the car really suits my driving style so I am doing way better with it than my old b4, on low grip surfaces I have no steering unless I touch the brakes, and no steering on power either!

I know this is apparently backwards but when I was doing go karting I could swear we used less castor for better turn in, 201 standard is 30 isn't it? Option 25? I think the 25 will turn it in better but give even less steering on power!?

I know you guys were trying all sorts during the day, did you end up trying rear blue springs in the end?

[tony6187]

25 deg caster will help with turn in alright.are you guys runing with the .5 deg hubs?maybe try the 0 deg ones if you are.what anti squat are you runing?try more maybe?

[Timee80]

I tried blue rear springs but didn't really make any difference. I tried tthe alloy 3 degree block upside down for more antisquat (right?) But no better. Lowered inner front camber link but still the same.
Cheers for the loan of the springs rich

[tony6187]

flipping the block upside down reduces the anti squat i thought?to increase it you add the spacer under the front block

[MattADH]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

I know this is apparently backwards but when I was doing go karting I could swear we used less castor for better turn in, 201 standard is 30 isn't it? Option 25? I think the 25 will turn it in better but give even less steering on power!?

A little off-topic I know but if I remember correctly, we used to run more caster on a kart in the wet as this used to give greater inside wheel lift at the rear and therefore more front end...

[rcrcman]

Lots of ways to increase steering.... lower steering knuckles, move the front arms all the way forward, no washers under front inner ball stud, outter position on the rear inner ball stud and all the way out on rear hub no washers, lengthen wheelbase, add anti-squat, raise front ride height/lower rear. Take alot of your weight out of the front. I run 21g on top of the servo and 21g on the antisquat plate and thats it. More entry steering = move top of rear shocks out, more mid-exit = move upper front shocks out, lower front oil weight slightly, raise rear oil weight slightly

I run 24mm F&R ride height religously and check it every run, eyeballing simply doesnt cut it

Lots of things to try to get the feel your after

[DaveG28]

I stand to be proven wrong here, but again I don't remember long wheelbase = more steering, but the other way round!? Eg the new shorter wrc cars are twitchy due to being shorter, cars like Renault clio's are nuts for the same reason!?

[fastinfastout]

the single improvement of steering I found when looking is to remove the rear inner ballstud washer. I could not beleive the improvement, and had to put the washer back in to check if it really was that simple.

huge huge difference!

try that first, before you start putting in weights.

[fastinfastout]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

I stand to be proven wrong here, but again I don't remember long wheelbase = more steering, but the other way round!? Eg the new shorter wrc cars are twitchy due to being shorter, cars like Renault clio's are nuts for the same reason!?

yes a car with a longer wheelbase is more stable, however when we change the wheelbase via hubs, its not about the wheelbase primarily, its about weight transfer. So believe it or not;

moving the rear hubs forward=more forward traction by transferring the weight more to the rear
and vice versa.

hard to understand, hard to explain, but please so try it yourself, or better still, get someone else to make the changes to your car without you knowing what they did, and try and guess which way he/she went.

now with that being said, I have found moving hubs to be a very minor tuning tool and make very little difference.

have fun, thats the main thing

[Rich D]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

Have to admit, as much as the car really suits my driving style so I am doing way better with it than my old b4, on low grip surfaces I have no steering unless I touch the brakes, and no steering on power either!

I know this is apparently backwards but when I was doing go karting I could swear we used less castor for better turn in, 201 standard is 30 isn't it? Option 25? I think the 25 will turn it in better but give even less steering on power!?

I know you guys were trying all sorts during the day, did you end up trying rear blue springs in the end?

Hi Dave

Yes, the std castor is 30 degrees on the 201, and its 25 as std on the B4FT. When i ran my B4FT at Worksop, i changed the front blocks to 30 degree and the car felt dialed with them. I have ordered some 25 degree blocks to try but i dont think thats the main problem. I also ran AE silver springs all round on my B4. The nearest to these are the Tamiya Blue i have found out this morning. That means the Yellows i used yesterday are too soft. Less castor means more steering, yes, thats what i have read too, more castor " aids stability, and handling in bumpy sections " ( From Elvo`s guide )

I had different people telling me different things yesterday. Whilst they had good intentions, i kind of went backwards not knowing what alteration was doing what. I dont like to have to use the brakes to pivot the car at every corner, yesterday, that was the only way i could get it round the hairpins.

Rich

[Rich D]

Originally Posted by Timee80

I tried blue rear springs but didn't really make any difference. I tried tthe alloy 3 degree block upside down for more antisquat (right?) But no better. Lowered inner front camber link but still the same.
Cheers for the loan of the springs rich

No worries Tim, i think we all had similar issues. Dave G was the highest placed 201 if i recall correctly and even his looked to be lacking steering compared to the other cars in his final.

Hopefully should have a reasonable setup by the end of the players meeting to help you with.

[Rich D]

Originally Posted by fastinfastout

the single improvement of steering I found when looking is to remove the rear inner ballstud washer. I could not beleive the improvement, and had to put the washer back in to check if it really was that simple.

huge huge difference!

try that first, before you start putting in weights.

Is this when using the std ballstuds or the hard 53969 studs which are 1mm lower ?

Cheers

[Rich D]

Originally Posted by tony6187

25 deg caster will help with turn in alright.are you guys runing with the .5 deg hubs?maybe try the 0 deg ones if you are.what anti squat are you runing?try more maybe?

Yes Tony, i was running the 0.5 rear hubs and im going to try some zero degree ones at the players. Certainly wasnt lacking rear end grip, just turn in.

As for anti squat, im using both rear alloy parts, spacer under the front mount with the rear mount in the higher position ( its reversible i understand so mine is mounted with the 3.0 degrees logo upside down when viewed from the rear ). I guess that means its on medium setting ?

[rcrcman]

moving the rear hubs to the rear position will lessen the dogbone angle and free up the rear, more steering.

more bind = more traction

also something to think about, the further rear the motor is eg: larger spur, larger pinion there is more "swing weight" meaning there is more weight placed rearward of the tires, this will create a slight bit more steering and forward bite also. This can cause a push on power and over steer off power

[tony6187]

Originally Posted by Rich D

Yes Tony, i was running the 0.5 rear hubs and im going to try some zero degree ones at the players. Certainly wasnt lacking rear end grip, just turn in.

As for anti squat, im using both rear alloy parts, spacer under the front mount with the rear mount in the higher position ( its reversible i understand so mine is mounted with the 3.0 degrees logo upside down when viewed from the rear ). I guess that means its on medium setting ?

yeah thats the medium setting maybe try it the right way up.one thing i did find outdoors on grass was that when i went to a heavier front spring (from ae silvers to blues,think i also went up 5 weight in oil) i got a shed load more steering(way to much) maybe worth a try although i dont know if it will work here.let me know if this has been any help