c4.1 setup advice for low/medium grip surface i.e chadderton

[minty]

Hi im after a bit of advice for setting up the c4.1 at chadderton. I was struggling for rear end traction and i tried loads of changes.

My initial setup was front silver springs 30wt number 2 pistons, rear was green springs 30wt number 1 pistons.


ta

minty

[minty]

Forgot to add i was running yellow minipins front and rear

[gazhillAE]

Did you have to much steering or no rear end??
Where we're you getting no rear end on power or off power mid corner explain further.
Both different things and one can sort the other out etc

Gaz

[minty]

I didn't really have enough steering at first and had to make the front end a little more aggressive.

I felt like i definitely didn't have on power rear end traction and I could have probably done with a little bit more mid corner traction. On corner entry the back end was constantly wanting to break free

[Richard Lowe]

Try lowering the inner camberlink ballstud on the rear tower, this will make the back feel more locked in and stable.

In my experience the lower the link the easier the car is to drive but not as quick as moving the ballstud up which gives more rotation.

[gazhillAE]

Originally Posted by minty

I didn't really have enough steering at first and had to make the front end a little more aggressive.

I felt like i definitely didn't have on power rear end traction and I could have probably done with a little bit more mid corner traction. On corner entry the back end was constantly wanting to break free

Making the front end more agressive made the rear end looser
Which link are you using on the rear mount?
What anti squat 1 or 2

[gazhillAE]

Originally Posted by Richard Lowe

Try lowering the inner camberlink ballstud on the rear tower, this will make the back feel more locked in and stable.

In my experience the lower the link the easier the car is to drive but not as quick as moving the ballstud up which gives more rotation.

Exactly where I was going
You've got 6 holes normally indoors people seem to run the 2nd or 3rd from top
Outdoors on low traction they were using the 2nd from the bottom from memory to give more side bite.
You can lower as rich has said 1 or 2 holes to give more side bite but then you will want to get more steering!
Any questions?

[tony12795]

Minty, Post your full detailed setup from Chadderton including motor setup and electrics setup and we can go thought what you could change and hopefully we can expain where you’re going wrong. It’s no good people just posting random changes that will get you more rear end grip or take grip away.

I was there and your always welcome to pop over and I will help. What you must remember is with Chadderton you must compromise on rear end grip to try and generate front end grip. otherwise you will be just to slow.

What I did notice is allot of people were under steering with the C4.1 and from what I could see this was due to having to much rear end grip or weight balance was not right (I think). So I am surprised you where struggling with rear grip.

Originally Posted by minty

Hi im after a bit of advice for setting up the c4.1 at chadderton. I was struggling for rear end traction and i tried loads of changes.

My initial setup was front silver springs 30wt number 2 pistons, rear was green springs 30wt number 1 pistons.


ta

minty

[Chrislong]

Minty, as you saw mine was pretty well balanced and I drove it hard - really pleased with it:

Front shocks:
35wt #2 ae pistons, blue springs, 2 limiters.
Mounted inner on tower, inner on wishbone.

Rear Shocks:
30wt #1 Ghea pistons, silver springs, no limiters.
Mounted 2nd front inner on tower, inner on wishbone.

Camber Links:
Front inner on hub, inner on tower, 1 washer. 2degree
Rear 3rd from bottom on tower, outer on hub. 2.5degree
1 degree Antisquat. Long wheelbase. Trailing axles.
0 degree rear hubs. 0 degree front toe
Front axles mounted low, 2 bumpsteer washers.

No additional brass items.
10g lead under steering bellcranks. 10g either side of Lipo's, 5g each side at rear of Lipos.

Wing is an HB high downforce wing, gurney left full.
7.5 HPI motor geared 24/81.

[minty]

Heres the setup that i was using. I did find i was understeering a little and when i put the inline knuckles on and added the weight under the horn it gave me more steering but the back end was unstable just as before i added the weight.

Thanks for the setup Chris your car did look to be going well on Sunday

[gazhillAE]

Originally Posted by minty

Heres the setup that i was using. I did find i was understeering a little and when i put the inline knuckles on and added the weight under the horn it gave me more steering but the back end was unstable just as before i added the weight.

Thanks for the setup Chris your car did look to be going well on Sunday

Medium wheelbase would of helped you
Long as your running will make it pivot more easier.
Did you put on there your running inline or trailing fronts?

I'd start with bradders Worksop setup and adjust from there that's what I'm doing with mine

Gaz

[minty]

Originally Posted by gazhillAE

Medium wheelbase would of helped you
Long as your running will make it pivot more easier.
Did you put on there our running inline or trailing fronts?

I'd start with bradders Worksop setup and adjust from there that's what I'm doing with mine

Gaz

Im running inline fronts

[tony12795]

Is it just my PC ?

I cannot see your setup, I just get the sand-dial ?

[gazhillAE]

Originally Posted by tony12795

Is it just my PC ?

I cannot see your setup, I just get the sand-dial ?

Inline front axles am I right in thinking are the optional ones?
I get mixed up
What ever the standard in b4.1 kit are you want those to start with!
Your also running outer on shock tower camber link
Move it to inside!
Il be at the next chadderton meet il have a go of it and tell you what I think it needs
If not tony and "part time racer" Chris will help you
Ste lawson is always approachable with any questions also matey!
You might be better off getting some kyosho silver short front springs for that meeting to!
Green AE for rear also!

Hope this helps

[minty]

oops ive filled in the sheet wrong, i was on the inner on the front tower and the inner on the front hub i.e closest to the shock tower.

am i right in assuming the kyosho silver fronts are stiffer than the associated silver but not as stiff as the associated blue?

[gazhillAE]

Originally Posted by minty

oops ive filled in the sheet wrong, i was on the inner on the front tower and the inner on the front hub i.e closest to the shock tower.

am i right in assuming the kyosho silver fronts are stiffer than the associated silver but not as stiff as the associated blue?

Yes it's something like that not got ratings for both on me though.
The silver kyosho are longer so more progressive

[Yardeeee]

Hi Minty,

Looking at your set up, there are a few things you could try to help with your rear grip issues.



The way you have the shocks set at the moment, you will be getting a lot of weight shift forward - you have the front of the car set pretty soft and in addition, with no limiters in your rear shocks you have a lot of rear droop so when coming off power (corner entry) all the weight is coming forward and making the rear go light and break away. I would do the following:

• Move bottom of front shocks to outside hole on wishbone
• Go to a slightly heavier front oil - 32.5wt maybe 35wt.
• Put 1, possibly 2 x 0.030 limiters in your rear shocks
• Med wheelbase (with long, you are taking even more weight off the back).
• Go back to trailing axles once you had done the above - I run my axles up as I like having the extra exit steering.
• Use 0deg rear hubs - 0.5deg hubs do give better traction but can also make the back end break away quicker.

Hope it goes well for you. I'll be at Chadderton in Dec if you want to come over.

Tom

[minty]

Thanks for the tips Tom, much appreciated. Il give them a go at the next meeting.

On a positive note ive been using the car indoors on carpet and its absolutely amazing. The quickest and most comfartable ive ever been with a 2wd car.

[Ashalak]

I just have to say that I think it's awesome that team drivers who've helped to design, develop and get this car to the market are still involved with helping the end user. As far as I am concerned this is why the B4.1/C4.1 should be on the top of anyone's just for a 2wd, keep up the good work Tom .

Originally Posted by Yardeeee

Hi Minty,

Looking at your set up, there are a few things you could try to help with your rear grip issues.



The way you have the shocks set at the moment, you will be getting a lot of weight shift forward - you have the front of the car set pretty soft and in addition, with no limiters in your rear shocks you have a lot of rear droop so when coming off power (corner entry) all the weight is coming forward and making the rear go light and break away. I would do the following:

• Move bottom of front shocks to outside hole on wishbone
• Go to a slightly heavier front oil - 32.5wt maybe 35wt.
• Put 1, possibly 2 x 0.030 limiters in your rear shocks
• Med wheelbase (with long, you are taking even more weight off the back).
• Go back to trailing axles once you had done the above - I run my axles up as I like having the extra exit steering.
• Use 0deg rear hubs - 0.5deg hubs do give better traction but can also make the back end break away quicker.

Hope it goes well for you. I'll be at Chadderton in Dec if you want to come over.

Tom