xx4 Ackerman

Kopite · #1 11-03-2008

Hi guys,

still relatively new to the ways of the xx4, so i have some questions...

The steering links. Do people run the links on the inner or outer? And what difference does it make?
Also, if you were to compensate the link difference (from outer to inner, or vice versa) with a different length rod (to keep the same space between the links), would this have differing results to the ackerman?

Rear belts. I've spoken to a few people about this over the weekend, cos i snapped my rear belt after 2 runs (which clearly suggests i'm doing something wrong). Do people run it tight, or loose? and what's their reasons for this? I know i made the mistake of running the slipper too tight as well, but i want to make sure i'm doing everything correctly.

CR Rear Wishbones. Are the CR rear wishbones for the XXXCR (that i use on my xx4) the same both sides? (ie can i swap them round, and have no affect on handling). Again, i have heard differing views on this, although my suspicion is that they do alter the wheelbase if you swap them round.

Stanners

Southwell · #2 11-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopite

Hi guys,

still relatively new to the ways of the xx4, so i have some questions...

The steering links. Do people run the links on the inner or outer? And what difference does it make?
Also, if you were to compensate the link difference (from outer to inner, or vice versa) with a different length rod (to keep the same space between the links), would this have differing results to the ackerman?

Rear belts. I've spoken to a few people about this over the weekend, cos i snapped my rear belt after 2 runs (which clearly suggests i'm doing something wrong). Do people run it tight, or loose? and what's their reasons for this? I know i made the mistake of running the slipper too tight as well, but i want to make sure i'm doing everything correctly.

I run mine A forwards, never skips and havn't ever broken 'touch wood' a belt before, they have now done all last year and a few meetings this year too. You want to run it as loose as possible but without belt skip to keep the drivetrain free.
If your slipper is buggered then it tends to lock up rather than slip ive found, which will break belts in no time. I would replace the pads and possibly the plates too.

CR Rear Wishbones. Are the CR rear wishbones for the XXXCR (that i use on my xx4) the same both sides? (ie can i swap them round, and have no affect on handling). Again, i have heard differing views on this, although my suspicion is that they do alter the wheelbase if you swap them round.
EDIT: Not 100% on this but i think they are sided, the dots on them indicate the sides.

Stanners

.......

Gayo · #3 11-03-2008

Yes, the XXX CR bones (and the standard XX4 bones) are sided, usually you have the "EA3" logo facing the rear. It gives short WB which suits the inboard toe-in.

ashleyb4 · #4 11-03-2008

Stan rear belt tension should be b forwards and the cr rear wishbones are nto directional you can use tem either side. As for steering link i think pretty much everyone runs outer.

A

Kopite · #5 11-03-2008

see...already there is contrasting opinions

Southwell · #6 11-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

Stan rear belt tension should be b forwards and the cr rear wishbones are nto directional you can use tem either side. As for steering link i think pretty much everyone runs outer.

A

B forwards is generally too tight. and the wishbones ARE directional.

losixxx · #7 11-03-2008

ive run B forwards for 4 years and never done a rear belt 700 side belts but not 1 rear

Gayo · #8 11-03-2008

Lol
Look better Ash, they are sided. I have just checked once again.

ashleyb4 · #9 11-03-2008

I have my xx4 and my rear belt tension is set to b with the arrow pointing forwards like sleigh told me to run t and as it has been run since the indoor finals last year when it was new.only ever snapped one rear belt. And i have a brand new pair of rear cr arms here and there not directional.

A

Southwell · #10 11-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by losixxx

ive run B forwards for 4 years and never done a rear belt 700 side belts but not 1 rear

Really? Mine was like a banjo string on B forwards....Really you need to judge what it's like when you build it, but im of the opinion if A forwards doesn't skip at all then it will be free'er and work more efficently.

Southwell · #11 11-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

I have my xx4 and my rear belt tension is set to b with the arrow pointing forwards like sleigh told me to run t and as it has been run since the indoor finals last year when it was new.only ever snapped one rear belt. And i have a brand new pair of rear cr arms here and there not directional.

A

There are dots on them for sides....

ashleyb4 · #12 11-03-2008

Ill shut up but i was right about the belt

lookingmore closly the idffrence in microscopic.

A

ashleyb4 · #13 11-03-2008

but it all makes a diffrence.

A

ashleyb4 · #14 11-03-2008

make sure your slipper is also set right stan as this will snap belts as when you land off a jump it puts extra strain on your belts.

A

super__dan · #15 11-03-2008

ACtually it's 2mm IIRC on wheelbase change with wishbones on original ones.

Swiss · #16 11-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southwell

Really? Mine was like a banjo string on B forwards....Really you need to judge what it's like when you build it, but im of the opinion if A forwards doesn't skip at all then it will be free'er and work more efficently.

A forwards always, as Southwell said. Always run mine like that, never had any problems with belt breakages. Regarding the Ackermen, outer holes. I believe if you run the inner ones makes the steering more agressive??

_sleigh_ · #17 11-03-2008

OK then.. for a start Stan obviously didn't trust what I'z told him at Kiddy

Ackerman was pretty much always in the outer holes, to give a "parrallel" look to the steering bellcranks . I think (although never tried myself) the other setup is better on dirt/low grip tracks, gives more initial turn in.

I always ran the belt on B forward, as it was generally the thought that a very loose belt (ie A forward) would 'flap' about in the tunnel and give issues with wear and vibration. With the exception of a borrowed car at the Euro's (France) I never broke a rear belt.

As for the wishbones, they ARE handed and I believe it makes a small difference in the wheelbase. Check your CR manual if you're in any doubt (page 7)

Kopite · #18 11-03-2008

Now now Mr Sleigh, it's not that i didn't trust your judgement, it was just that i literally have been told completely different things in terms of the rear belt. To me, a loose one isn't the way forward as it'll just 'whip' the belt more when accelerating, and snap easier. however, i just wanted to know what the general view was!

unreal how almost everyone seems to disagree with this part of the car!

ashleyb4 · #19 11-03-2008

Sleigh the man listen to him stan and you cant go wrong.

A

Southwell · #20 11-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopite

unreal how almost everyone seems to disagree with this part of the car!

I think you need to use your judgement when building the car, b forwards was way too tight on my car last time i put a new belt in and a forwards was pretty spot on, if not still feeling a tad tight. If i was breaking belts the first place i would look at would be the slipper.