Lazer zxr

[oosh123]

I think that the machineing of the pulleys will be the cost compared to the material itself.

mvh Isobarik

If I am able to find some titanium gear stock, then the cost will be even lower.

Welshy, in manufacturing, the material cost is actually a very low cost. It's the labour that's huge. That's why China can make things cheap, poor chinese makes like a $0.25/hour.

[alcyon]

If I am able to find some titanium gear stock, then the cost will be even lower.

Welshy, in manufacturing, the material cost is actually a very low cost. It's the labour that's huge. That's why China can make things cheap, poor chinese makes like a $0.25/hour.
very true, that is why all the jobs in the US are lost to china.

[isobarik]

OOsh if you send some drawings on my mail i can ask them at work if the can do some machining...

mvh Isobarik

[oosh123]

OOsh if you send some drawings on my mail i can ask them at work if the can do some machining...

mvh Isobarik

Still working on the drawing. it's difficult to dimension them =(

Can you ask if your CNC programmers can make it with just the 3D model? I used SolidWork to model them.

When I was a CNC programmer, all I needed was the model.

[isobarik]

Yeah i will ask him what he needs to make em.

mvh Isobarik

[isobarik]

Made this

http://proxy1.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt_33/32860000-32869999/640x480/32863053.jpg

But shall i use these ??

http://proxy1.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt_33/32860000-32869999/640x480/32863054.jpg

mvh Isobarik

[knmtrip3]

Got this car off ebay a few years ago. The carbon fibre chassis,top deck and shock mounts were in excellent condition and so were the option house shocks (they've been fitted to one of my other cars).
Lots of parts needed to be changed,wishbones,front & rear cvd's,teamline front hub carriers,alloy la-30's,Oosh123's blue belts,fully ballraced blue steering fitted and the ball diffs needed a full refurb. The car was finished off with the tomcat bodyshell and a dyed set of HPI 3030 wheels.

[oosh123]

Got this car off ebay a few years ago. The carbon fibre chassis,top deck and shock mounts were in excellent condition and so were the option house shocks (they've been fitted to one of my other cars).
Lots of parts needed to be changed,wishbones,front & rear cvd's,teamline front hub carriers,alloy la-30's,Oosh123's blue belts,fully ballraced blue steering fitted and the ball diffs needed a full refurb. The car was finished off with the tomcat bodyshell and a dyed set of HPI 3030 wheels.

WTF? you were one of the people who brought the belts on ebay?

They look awesome! Hope they perform the same as good as they look for you!

[oosh123]

Got this car off ebay a few years ago. The carbon fibre chassis,top deck and shock mounts were in excellent condition and so were the option house shocks (they've been fitted to one of my other cars).
Lots of parts needed to be changed,wishbones,front & rear cvd's,teamline front hub carriers,alloy la-30's,Oosh123's blue belts,fully ballraced blue steering fitted and the ball diffs needed a full refurb. The car was finished off with the tomcat bodyshell and a dyed set of HPI 3030 wheels.

What steering hubs are those?? they look blue.... drool....

[sz3]

What steering hubs are those?? they look blue.... drool....

The whole car looks really good :)

A small question on a side note: Can someone tell me the ISO/DIN/.. number of those self tapping screws used for most of the plastic parts? And do the various existing screw sets contain these or are they replaced with metric fine threaded screws?

[BORMAC]

Hi guys, just thought I'd share a few pics of my progress with my ZX.

I have been told this is a genuine ZX when I bought it. I have since rebuilt is with a slipper, blue steering set and uprated ball diffs. Also tracked down the shock towers from EMA (thanks again :thumbsup: )

I want to dress this car up in a ZX lexan set and would also like some of the cool alloy upgrades that are around on eBay at the minute. I may lose the belt cover as it seems to create a bit of drag.

Can anyone spot my ball cups on the steering drag link? I think they might be upside down?? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I only recently fabricated some lipo saddle pack holders from fibreglass but am still yet to sort the hold down parts.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX1.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX2.jpg

[alcyon]

Hi guys, just thought I'd share a few pics of my progress with my ZX.

I have been told this is a genuine ZX when I bought it. I have since rebuilt is with a slipper, blue steering set and uprated ball diffs. Also tracked down the shock towers from EMA (thanks again :thumbsup: )

I want to dress this car up in a ZX lexan set and would also like some of the cool alloy upgrades that are around on eBay at the minute. I may lose the belt cover as it seems to create a bit of drag.

Can anyone spot my ball cups on the steering drag link? I think they might be upside down?? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I only recently fabricated some lipo saddle pack holders from fibreglass but am still yet to sort the hold down parts.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX1.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX2.jpg
what tyres are those and what spur gear are you using ? your shocks looks so golden !

[BORMAC]

what tyres are those and what spur gear are you using ? your shocks looks so golden !

Tyres are some old Hole Shots that Ive been running up and down my street with (pretty much had it).
The spur is one of those 100 tooth jobbies that someone here had machined :thumbsup:
The Option House dampers are like new (front ones were nip). Nice shocks and they wont be getting replaced with anything modern. Great shocks for their day. :D

[BORMAC]

I really like this car. Don't care if the style I am going for suits anyone else but I wanted to try and recreate something which you would have seen at the 89' Worlds here in Australia. Gotta run that 'bulbous' bodyset with the dual element wing too :D






Here's a pic of my old ZXR Mk2 I sold a while back (Im soo stupid, should not have sold this one)

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LAZER4SALE.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LAZER4SALE7.jpg

[knmtrip3]

What steering hubs are those?? they look blue.... drool....

The front steering hubs are from the lazer zx5 from 3racing,have also got there rear blue hubs fitted aswell.:thumbsup:

[alcyon]

I really like this car. Don't care if the style I am going for suits anyone else but I wanted to try and recreate something which you would have seen at the 89' Worlds here in Australia. Gotta run that 'bulbous' bodyset with the dual element wing too :D






Here's a pic of my old ZXR Mk2 I sold a while back (Im soo stupid, should not have sold this one)

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LAZER4SALE.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LAZER4SALE7.jpg
is that the LWB optima Mid body ?About that white spur gear, could you tell me where to buy it from and whatsthe part number ?

[isobarik]

The whole car looks really good :)

A small question on a side note: Can someone tell me the ISO/DIN/.. number of those self tapping screws used for most of the plastic parts? And do the various existing screw sets contain these or are they replaced with metric fine threaded screws?

You can change them to 3mm ( M3 ) stainless steel screws of youre liking ...

mvh Isobarik

[isobarik]

is that the LWB optima Mid body ?About that white spur gear, could you tell me where to buy it from and whatsthe part number ?

Its an Lazer ZXS body probably original but avaliable from kamtec.

The white spur avaliable from
www.rw-racing.co.uk (http://www.rw-racing.co.uk)

100 tooth 48p with hex for B4 slipper pads.

Bormac why did you sell it ???

mvh Isobarik

[BORMAC]

Thanks for your help ISO. The spur is top notch and a real credit to the guy that thought it up. We owe our thanks for this one :thumbsup:

As for the lexan body, it was included with the car when I bought it from a racer friend of mine. It is genuine and was the only one I had seen up until a few repro's were made. I always liked that style of body but with my latest ZX project I am going back to the original for period correctness. :D

[isobarik]

What steering hubs are those?? they look blue.... drool....

I think i can get those from the LHS i think i did see some Alu TF3 parts will let you know.

mvh Isobarik

[isobarik]

Thanks for your help ISO. The spur is top notch and a real credit to the guy that thought it up. We owe our thanks for this one :thumbsup:

As for the lexan body, it was included with the car when I bought it from a racer friend of mine. It is genuine and was the only one I had seen up until a few repro's were made. I always liked that style of body but with my latest ZX project I am going back to the original for period correctness. :D

When you lost the lead the second time because the sucker draged to ground you will change it since that sucker is wide ....but on the other side there are lots of room for the electrics....

mvh Isobarik

[BORMAC]

ISO you crack me up :woot: LOL!

My ZX is not being built so much for competition but more nostalgia. It is a big wide body and it will have more wind drag than the ZX but I am funny like that. I just like the looks of the old ZX styling :thumbsup:

[isobarik]

ISO you crack me up :woot: LOL!

My ZX is not being built so much for competition but more nostalgia. It is a big wide body and it will have more wind drag than the ZX but I am funny like that. I just like the looks of the old ZX styling :thumbsup:

And you can fill it with like 50 battery packds so you can run it forever .....:thumbsup:

mvh Isobarik

[lllyf]

Hi guys, just thought I'd share a few pics of my progress with my ZX.

I have been told this is a genuine ZX when I bought it. I have since rebuilt is with a slipper, blue steering set and uprated ball diffs. Also tracked down the shock towers from EMA (thanks again :thumbsup: )

I want to dress this car up in a ZX lexan set and would also like some of the cool alloy upgrades that are around on eBay at the minute. I may lose the belt cover as it seems to create a bit of drag.

Can anyone spot my ball cups on the steering drag link? I think they might be upside down?? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I only recently fabricated some lipo saddle pack holders from fibreglass but am still yet to sort the hold down parts.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX1.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX2.jpg


I really love the legend shock towers，if you using the original zx body，I think the original 2“ wheels and tires will be better

[isobarik]

Bought some new stuff shall post pics later....:thumbsup:

mvh Isobarik

[rondoolaa]

Bought some new stuff shall post pics later....:thumbsup:

mvh Isobarik

tease, lol

[isobarik]

Yeah Ron im realy teasing you i could say it but since its here within a couple of days i will post pics later....


mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Thanks for your help ISO. The spur is top notch and a real credit to the guy that thought it up. We owe our thanks for this one :thumbsup:

As for the lexan body, it was included with the car when I bought it from a racer friend of mine. It is genuine and was the only one I had seen up until a few repro's were made. I always liked that style of body but with my latest ZX project I am going back to the original for period correctness. :D

Cheers dude, spur was a five second design. Gearbox and slipper clutch will take longer.

[Welshy40]

Hi guys, just thought I'd share a few pics of my progress with my ZX.

I have been told this is a genuine ZX when I bought it. I have since rebuilt is with a slipper, blue steering set and uprated ball diffs. Also tracked down the shock towers from EMA (thanks again :thumbsup: )

I want to dress this car up in a ZX lexan set and would also like some of the cool alloy upgrades that are around on eBay at the minute. I may lose the belt cover as it seems to create a bit of drag.

Can anyone spot my ball cups on the steering drag link? I think they might be upside down?? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I only recently fabricated some lipo saddle pack holders from fibreglass but am still yet to sort the hold down parts.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX1.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/LazerZX2.jpg

Ball cups look ok to me

[oosh123]

Welshy, got mail yet?

[oosh123]

Cheers dude, spur was a five second design. Gearbox and slipper clutch will take longer.

Welshy, When's the gearbox and the slipper be ready?

[oosh123]

This might not be a big deal to some of you, but I finally got myself 2 sets of ball diffs for my lazer! Brand new!!!

[Welshy40]

Welshy, When's the gearbox and the slipper be ready?

Im in houston at the mo but will chase them when im back

[isobarik]

Well since i have it in my car i can give you an sneak peak..

http://www.karlekensvampyrer.se/ZXS/DSC_8245.JPG

pic borrowed from previous owner..

mvh Isobarik

[oosh123]

I have a question.

I am thinking of changing the bolts on the lazer with something better.

Titanium? But since the car likes to be heavy, should I use Stainless steel?

[alcyon]

I have a question.

I am thinking of changing the bolts on the lazer with something better.

Titanium? But since the car likes to be heavy, should I use Stainless steel?
stainless steel bends easily.

[Welshy40]

I have a question.

I am thinking of changing the bolts on the lazer with something better.

Titanium? But since the car likes to be heavy, should I use Stainless steel?

Use stainless steel hex screws, bigger hex heads. Titanium snaps and tends to be the head so removing can be costly. The only stainless steel screws that bend can be the shock mount screws or gearbox front screws if crashing at speed.

[Welshy40]

Well since i have it in my car i can give you an sneak peak..

http://www.karlekensvampyrer.se/ZXS/DSC_8245.JPG

pic borrowed from previous owner..

mvh Isobarik

Mmm what items mate? ive found the trf511 shocks suit this car better.

[isobarik]

A pic on both of my beuties.....

http://proxy1.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt_43/32860000-32869999/640x480/32866513.jpg

The right one im actually going to run one day but the left one not sure about that.

Look at the left ones front hexes so narrow..

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

A pic on both of my beuties.....

http://proxy1.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt_43/32860000-32869999/640x480/32866513.jpg

The right one im actually going to run one day but the left one not sure about that.

Look at the left ones front hexes so narrow..

mvh Isobarik

Both of the front hexes from both look to narrow. Still I see fibre lyte made those bits. Looking good, maybe oneday we should have a race.

[oosh123]

Both of the front hexes from both look to narrow. Still I see fibre lyte made those bits. Looking good, maybe oneday we should have a race.

Someday we should have a bling contest

[isobarik]

Both of the front hexes from both look to narrow. Still I see fibre lyte made those bits. Looking good, maybe oneday we should have a race.

They are same front and rear on the EVO ( blue hexes, vzw10 ) but on the zxs they are narrow front compared to the rears.

mvh Isobarik

[kenios]

here's my lazer zx-rr, still needs to be fully dismounted and i will relube everything and i also will redo the stripes and stars on the body, they are peeling of.

for the rest it seems to be almost new, shocks are smooth, new tires, diff's are ok.

project for the summer.

[isobarik]

here's my lazer zx-rr, still needs to be fully dismounted and i will relube everything and i also will redo the stripes and stars on the body, they are peeling of.

for the rest it seems to be almost new, shocks are smooth, new tires, diff's are ok.

project for the summer.

Thats an sexy body like it .........:thumbsup:

They are so sharp the corners on the original body why cant some one make an propper copy....

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

They are same front and rear on the EVO ( blue hexes, vzw10 ) but on the zxs they are narrow front compared to the rears.

mvh Isobarik

Ive made my fronts double the thickness of the zxr hexesas it makes the car more driveable. The team used standard zxr size hexes (the ones with the rubber band) On all four axles. Still looking good.

[Welshy40]

Someday we should have a bling contest

Im in agreement. If we can get all zx and zxr plus zxs racers all under one roof for a race event then great. I opt for carpet as there is less agro and zerostripping and rebuilding required and more time for socialising.

[rondoolaa]

Im in agreement. If we can get all zx and zxr plus zxs racers all under one roof for a race event then great. I opt for carpet as there is less agro and zerostripping and rebuilding required and more time for socialising.

sounds like a plan

[kek23k]

here's my lazer zx-rr, still needs to be fully dismounted and i will relube everything and i also will redo the stripes and stars on the body, they are peeling of.

for the rest it seems to be almost new, shocks are smooth, new tires, diff's are ok.

project for the summer.

That's a nice looking ZXRR, congrats and like you say most of it looks like new :DX

[oosh123]

Im in agreement. If we can get all zx and zxr plus zxs racers all under one roof for a race event then great. I opt for carpet as there is less agro and zerostripping and rebuilding required and more time for socialising.

I would need to fly over from Vancouver, Canada.....

It is really half way around the world.....

[Welshy40]

I would need to fly over from Vancouver, Canada.....

It is really half way around the world.....

Its just over the pon:thumbsup:d.

[lllyf]

nice zx-rr, how many zx-rr were released in that days？I know the active steering sensor including in the kit，who have this？

[oosh123]

Woah.. I want one of these so much!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/04/rolands-imodela-3d-milling-machine-its-a-crafty-tool/

If I have it, I can make my own prototype parts out of delrin.. blue delrin.

[isobarik]

Yeah i want one too how cool wasent it to have one of those damn cool...:woot::thumbsup:

btw yesterday morning it was -40 celsius same in farenheit when i took my car to work.

mvh Isobarik

[olefiloux]

A pic on both of my beuties.....

http://proxy1.pixbox.se/arkivet/synligt_43/32860000-32869999/640x480/32866513.jpg

The right one im actually going to run one day but the left one not sure about that.

Look at the left ones front hexes so narrow..

mvh Isobarik

MIAM! those cars are so cute....
Very nice job....

[Welshy40]

Not as cute as mine but sweet never the less.

[sz3]

You can change them to 3mm ( M3 ) stainless steel screws of youre liking ...

mvh Isobarik

Ok, just did not want to break the threads on all those plastic parts since the self tapping screws seem to have a much coarser thread.


Woah.. I want one of these so much!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/04/rolands-imodela-3d-milling-machine-its-a-crafty-tool/

If I have it, I can make my own prototype parts out of delrin.. blue delrin.

Maybe 3D Printing services (printing in ABS, Nylon, ...) would be sufficient for some prototypes?

[alcyon]

guys, is there anyone that can help me? i need a ZX-R wing stay set UMW-1. if anyone can sell me one please let me know. thanks.

[isobarik]

Du you need many ??? just let me know...

mvh Isobarik

[oli4ke]

guys, is there anyone that can help me? i need a ZX-R wing stay set UMW-1. if anyone can sell me one please let me know. thanks.

http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Kyosho-Vintage-UMW-1-Wing-Stay-Set-Ultima-Lazer-ZX-R-ZX-RR-/190635002051?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_123&hash=item2c62bb48c3

[isobarik]

Cant get any faster then this ....

mvh Isobarik

[alcyon]

Du you need many ??? just let me know...

mvh Isobarik
i only need 1. i am checking with infernosonly if they can get it for me, their prices are ususally very low. they sell tyre W5631s for only U$9. if i cant get it from them i get it from you iso? how much you selling ?

[alcyon]

http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Kyosho-Vintage-UMW-1-Wing-Stay-Set-Ultima-Lazer-ZX-R-ZX-RR-/190635002051?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_123&hash=item2c62bb48c3
oli, thats wayy too expensive ! i think kyosho america is selling for only $3. i am trying now to get it from infernosonly.com.

[isobarik]

well they are stock at the LHS so thats the price but i can say they are not cheaper the 3$

mvh isobarik

[alcyon]

well they are stock at the LHS so thats the price but i can say they are not cheaper the 3$

mvh isobarik
iso just received email from mr Morrow, here is the excerpt..
Hi Rama,

Yes, we can get these and they are $2.89 each. They are in stock at Kyosho.

Regards,
Trevor Morrow
Your Rep. at www.infernosonly.com (http://www.infernosonly.com/)

[isobarik]

iso just received email from mr Morrow, here is the excerpt..
Hi Rama,

Yes, we can get these and they are $2.89 each. They are in stock at Kyosho.

Regards,
Trevor Morrow
Your Rep. at www.infernosonly.com (http://www.infernosonly.com/)

I meant that i cant get them under the 3$ ........
and kyosho prices are not the same all around the world.

mvh Isobarik

[olefiloux]

HI guys....
Is there anyone of you who know if Funkymojo still have 2 of these really crazy ZXS cars?

[alcyon]

HI guys....
Is there anyone of you who know if Funkymojo still have 2 of these really crazy ZXS cars?
you could contACT him through rctech.

[lllyf]

HI guys....
Is there anyone of you who know if Funkymojo still have 2 of these really crazy ZXS cars?

I think there are one ZX-S and one ZX-S EVO

[isobarik]

HI guys....
Is there anyone of you who know if Funkymojo still have 2 of these really crazy ZXS cars?

he sold one to welsh and welsh has sold it and i have the body from it.........

mvh isobarik

[olefiloux]

Thank guys...

[Welshy40]

Sherman (funkymojo) has sold all his zxs cars.

[alcyon]

guys, is there any easily available knuckle from other cars that can replace part OT-16 without any grinding or filing?

[isobarik]

Not what i know of..........

Thats why i switched to zx5 parts

mvh Isobarik

[Ema]

Who bought this body ? (unfortunately not me ..)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260950266341

It will be really nice if the person who won the auction will send the body to Kamtec .........

Bye
Ema

[isobarik]

Should have been me if i havent forgott about it :woot:

yeah we can hope someone makes a proper copy of it....

mvh isobarik

[Welshy40]

Well I did send him the tomcat shell and also a zxr undertray, just hope he gets around to doing the undertray soon.

Iso,

Im in need of a part number and as I have misplaced all of my manuals can you find it for me. There was a ZXR that didnt use king pins but actual screws that went into hollow hexes on top and bottom of the castor blocks. Can you find that number and let me know. Cheers.

[isobarik]

Well I did send him the tomcat shell and also a zxr undertray, just hope he gets around to doing the undertray soon.

Iso,

Im in need of a part number and as I have misplaced all of my manuals can you find it for me. There was a ZXR that didnt use king pins but actual screws that went into hollow hexes on top and bottom of the castor blocks. Can you find that number and let me know. Cheers.

Tricky one but ill give it a try

LA-63

when you placed an ball where the kingpin went Used on the ZXR MKII and the RR

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kyosho-LA-63-Lazer-ZXR-2-ZXRR-Inferno-10-King-Pins-2-/300373052381

Is it what you are looking for ???

mvh isobarik

[Welshy40]

Yes thats it mate. Thanks

[isobarik]

Yes thats it mate. Thanks


So one might say that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxbi7g7qnCI&feature=related

:thumbsup::woot:

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Anyone have any LA63 for sale?

[isobarik]

Anyone have any LA63 for sale?

How many do you need ???

And what are you going to use them for since there are modern alternatives.

mvh Isobarik

[alcyon]

How many do you need ???

And what are you going to use them for since there are modern alternatives.

mvh Isobarik
care to name the modern alternatives?

[Welshy40]

How many do you need ???

And what are you going to use them for since there are modern alternatives.

mvh Isobarik

Four pairs are needed and as my zx front hubs are on my zxs I need to rebuild my zx and have had enough of snapping my kingpins in my alloy knuckle arms. So will be using stainless steel screws instead.

[isobarik]

care to name the modern alternatives?

La-235 is one

3-racing zx5-23

and TF-008

mvh Isobarik

[isobarik]

Four pairs are needed and as my zx front hubs are on my zxs I need to rebuild my zx and have had enough of snapping my kingpins in my alloy knuckle arms. So will be using stainless steel screws instead.

4 pairs will set you back an hefty 20 quid

mvh Isobarik

[rondoolaa]

did anyone on here get this,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170780324257?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1202

well gutted, i missed it by about 5 pounds,

i should have bidded more :cry:

[isobarik]

did anyone on here get this,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170780324257?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1202

well gutted, i missed it by about 5 pounds,

i should have bidded more :cry:

Not me it was cool remember that nice arms and gearbox....

mvh Isobarik

[SimonW]

I got it, If anyone wants those arms let me know and the rest of the susp'n but the pivot pin holders. My Big Bore ZX-FS2 will be running soon.

[oosh123]

did anyone on here get this,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170780324257?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1202

well gutted, i missed it by about 5 pounds,

i should have bidded more :cry:

That rear diff outdrive looks nice...

[Welshy40]

That rear diff outdrive looks nice...

Somethings apeared in the post and looking good. Im hopefully getting the cad drawing soon for the zx gearbox and will make one plus i am hoping to get a tub chassis made as well. If all goes to plan within the next two weeks.

Rear out drives are zx and may be reflecting the light from the flash. If blue very nice.

[Welshy40]

4 pairs will set you back an hefty 20 quid

mvh Isobarik

Sounds good mate. Pm me your details again. Learning the lingo rather well :thumbsup:

[isobarik]

That rear diff outdrive looks nice...

yeah they do dont they.............

mvh henrik

[isobarik]

Sounds good mate. Pm me your details again. Learning the lingo rather well :thumbsup:

I shall order them for you.

yeah im learning,

if you just could stop cross dress and cover youre self in vaseline things will be going in the right direction also ...:woot:

mvh Isobarik

[alcyon]

I shall order them for you.

yeah im learning,
if you could just stop cross dress and cover youre self in vaseline things will be going in the right direction also ...:woot:

mvh Isobarik
hmm, feel like i am back in 1984 listening to dead or alive, marylin and erasure :thumbsup:

[Welshy40]

hmm, feel like i am back in 1984 listening to dead or alive, marylin and erasure :thumbsup:

I think its more to do with Iso liking vaseline

[isobarik]

I think its more to do with Iso liking vaseline

Me hell you pack the vaseline every where even in youre diffs.....:thumbsup:

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Me hell you pack the vaseline every where even in youre diffs.....:thumbsup:

mvh Isobarik

If it works why change it. Anyway I have this weekend rebuilt my ZX-S front end with the ZX-5 steering knuckle arms and are a better design so may resolve a few problems. Iso you may find these simpler as no spacers are needed under the knuckle arm, only one is needed ontop so makes it a lot less problematic if you loose the king pin.

Now next job is to get onto the diffs. I have a set of the original ZXR diffs but have never used them since day one so any ideas how to keep the damn thing from coming loose? Do you thread lock the screw or is there another solution? My excuse is I only used gear diffs then upgraded to pure ten diffs.

[kek23k]

Threadlock on the screw is the way to go :Dx

[adam lancia]

Does anyone recognize this (tiny!) picture of the front knuckle and carrier? I've got it saved as ZX-5 front knuckles and hubs but I can't seem to find anything like them online anywhere. They're very similar looking to the XX4 style knuckles and hubs. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

[alcyon]

If it works why change it. Anyway I have this weekend rebuilt my ZX-S front end with the ZX-5 steering knuckle arms and are a better design so may resolve a few problems. Iso you may find these simpler as no spacers are needed under the knuckle arm, only one is needed ontop so makes it a lot less problematic if you loose the king pin.

Now next job is to get onto the diffs. I have a set of the original ZXR diffs but have never used them since day one so any ideas how to keep the damn thing from coming loose? Do you thread lock the screw or is there another solution? My excuse is I only used gear diffs then upgraded to pure ten diffs.
in on road, ball diffs seem to already outlived its shelf life. virtuallty every on road car now uses oil filled gear diffs or has an option for them. Everyone complains if you use a 4.5R motor or hotter, the diff practically loosen. loosening of the diff by itself is a safety feature, becuase the balls cannot take the heat generated anymore. you can put threadlock on the other end of the outdrive, this will make sure the diff wont loosen up, but you will most probably melt the diff pulley. beleive me, something will probably give. The only way i see is to design an oil filled gear diff for the lazer, i know plastic tooling isnt cheap, but thats the only choice if we still want to drive this car. I only use a 10.5 so i never face any problem. The other option is to machine diff rings with heatsink built in them, it could work to dissipate the heat and will not require any molding investment.

[alcyon]

on another note, will the ZX-S body and undertray fit on the Optima Mid LWB chassis? its becuase i see its alot more similar to the Optima Mid body in shape, than to the ZX-R.

[Welshy40]

Does anyone recognize this (tiny!) picture of the front knuckle and carrier? I've got it saved as ZX-5 front knuckles and hubs but I can't seem to find anything like them online anywhere. They're very similar looking to the XX4 style knuckles and hubs. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

Best to contact kyosho as these are new, i think were first used at the worlds as per jimmys reports.

[Welshy40]

on another note, will the ZX-S body and undertray fit on the Optima Mid LWB chassis? its becuase i see its alot more similar to the Optima Mid body in shape, than to the ZX-R.

If the mids the same length as a zxr then yes it will fit

[isobarik]

If it works why change it. Anyway I have this weekend rebuilt my ZX-S front end with the ZX-5 steering knuckle arms and are a better design so may resolve a few problems. Iso you may find these simpler as no spacers are needed under the knuckle arm, only one is needed ontop so makes it a lot less problematic if you loose the king pin.

Now next job is to get onto the diffs. I have a set of the original ZXR diffs but have never used them since day one so any ideas how to keep the damn thing from coming loose? Do you thread lock the screw or is there another solution? My excuse is I only used gear diffs then upgraded to pure ten diffs.


You still used the ZXS caster block ???

Regarding the diff threadlock or drill it out and replace it with an UM-121 if you can find some. The last tip might need some machining

mvh Isobarik

[isobarik]

Does anyone recognize this (tiny!) picture of the front knuckle and carrier? I've got it saved as ZX-5 front knuckles and hubs but I can't seem to find anything like them online anywhere. They're very similar looking to the XX4 style knuckles and hubs. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

Yeah its from the zx5 but the where on pavidis worlds machine so i dont think they are avaliable to the public.

The zx5 SP,FS,FS2 use the same front susp but in plastic.

mvh isobarik

[kek23k]

Does anyone recognize this (tiny!) picture of the front knuckle and carrier? I've got it saved as ZX-5 front knuckles and hubs but I can't seem to find anything like them online anywhere. They're very similar looking to the XX4 style knuckles and hubs. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

There the metal hubs that were used at a Worlds event prior to the SP Lazer upgrade. In other words they are one-off Kyosho prototypes that were used before the SP kit went into production.

[alcyon]

the thing is i like the original lazers c hubs and kunckles better, its because i can run the front end narrower than the rear, this way i can have more steering than running the front wide, with the ZX-5 parts, the front is only wide, no adjustment can be done.

[terry.sc]

on another note, will the ZX-S body and undertray fit on the Optima Mid LWB chassis? its becuase i see its alot more similar to the Optima Mid body in shape, than to the ZX-R.
Yes, especially considering the ZX-S body is just a Mid Custom body with a couple of lumps added to clear the ZX-S layshaft and the steering assembly.

[alcyon]

Yes, especially considering the ZX-S body is just a Mid Custom body with a couple of lumps added to clear the ZX-S layshaft and the steering assembly.
i am just worried the undertray slope at the sides might not line up with the optima Mid OT-122 chassis sides. will they line up nicely? The ZX-S body to me looks nicer becuase of one improvement over the Optima mid LWB body, the side windows extend all the way to the back like for the SWB, whereas the LWB mids side windows are like the Kyosho integras side windows. also will the ZX-S body fit directly on the LWB mid undertray?

[terry.sc]

i am just worried the undertray slope at the sides might not line up with the optima Mid OT-122 chassis sides. will they line up nicely?
The ZX-S undertray is that shape because it was designed to fit the OT-122 chassis.

I did a body comparison here (http://www.tcphotos.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=3224&sid=297&secid=251&t=) the overall shape of both bodies is identical.
The main point to consider is the rear section, the ZX-S doesn't have the two bumps that fit over the shock mount so you have to cut slots to clear it. You will notice the clear ZX-S body rear has the same moulding marks as the Mid Custom, showing they are from the same mould.
http://www.tcphotos.com/pc_userimages/297/generated/img297_05062007112127_4_350.jpg

As it is from the same mould that was modified by Kyosho, the ZX-S body will fit a Mid Custom undertray.

[alcyon]

The ZX-S undertray is that shape because it was designed to fit the OT-122 chassis.

I did a body comparison here (http://www.tcphotos.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=3224&sid=297&secid=251&t=) the overall shape of both bodies is identical.
The main point to consider is the rear section, the ZX-S doesn't have the two bumps that fit over the shock mount so you have to cut slots to clear it. You will notice the clear ZX-S body rear has the same moulding marks as the Mid Custom, showing they are from the same mould.
http://www.tcphotos.com/pc_userimages/297/generated/img297_05062007112127_4_350.jpg

As it is from the same mould that was modified by Kyosho, the ZX-S body will fit a Mid Custom undertray.
hey man thanks !! i will get a ZX-S body later, by the way, i dont mount my bodies on my MID using the fronts and the rears becuase i use ZX-R shock towers, i cut off the front and rear sections clean off, see these pics.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/optimamidcustom19feb2012-1.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/optimamidcustom19feb2012-2.jpg

[isobarik]

Welsh the LA-63 are ordered but i havent recived them yet, just wanted to keep you updated.

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Welsh the LA-63 are ordered but i havent recived them yet, just wanted to keep you updated.

mvh Isobarik

Cheers mate. Much appreciated.

[Welshy40]

hey man thanks !! i will get a ZX-S body later, by the way, i dont mount my bodies on my MID using the fronts and the rears becuase i use ZX-R shock towers, i cut off the front and rear sections clean off, see these pics.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/optimamidcustom19feb2012-1.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/optimamidcustom19feb2012-2.jpg

This is a Mid, nice work.

[Welshy40]

Update

Guys, I am getting the CAD drawing for the gearbox today so will start tonight on it and aim to get two sides made up by the end of this week.

Also may be a good idea in getting alcyon involed in the design of the slipper as his Mid slipper redesign using the B4 slipper parts looks stunning.

Also I have managed to get hold of a hand made tub chassis for the ZXR and have sent off to be made as well so a mold will be available soon. I will post a picture of the made tub chassis but FYI the mold will be as though the chassis is a full cabon fibre tub so if you want cell holes you can have.

As ive been spending all my money on my house I have been unable to do this until now as my chassis and top deck are still broken. Still cant wait to get new ones and fit and test properly.

[alcyon]

Update


Also may be a good idea in getting alcyon involed in the design of the slipper as his Mid slipper redesign using the B4 slipper parts looks stunning.

.
hehe thanks for the compliments welshy40. i will see how i can intergrate the B4 part with the ZX top shaft. if you need the CAD drawing i did for the Optima mid shaft let me know.

[isobarik]

How did you manage to break the chassi and topdeck ???

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

hehe thanks for the compliments welshy40. i will see how i can intergrate the B4 part with the ZX top shaft. if you need the CAD drawing i did for the Optima mid shaft let me know.

Yes please, id prefer gif cad drawings please

[Welshy40]

How did you manage to break the chassi and topdeck ???

mvh Isobarik

Hitting a brick wall at area 51 at the end of the straight. Speed was quick and would have made the top 40 if it hadnt have interferance. Gutted as nothing else broke other than the top deck and chassis. No dents on hubs or wishbones so any other car and it would be worse. Also annoyed as id gone from last to first and was on for a really good first round time hence why i used the zxs.

[alcyon]

There is an auction on ebay uk now for 2 pairs of front diffs. The seller says these are optima mid diffs but to me they look like Lazer Gear diffs. The seller isnt too sure but you guys can help confirm that i am right ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230752942662&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

[isobarik]

There is an auction on ebay uk now for 2 pairs of front diffs. The seller says these are optima mid diffs but to me they look like Lazer Gear diffs. The seller isnt too sure but you guys can help confirm that i am right ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230752942662&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Yeah those are lazer diffs.

mvh Isobarik

[kek23k]

Definately Lazer gear diffs, the pulley is the wrong pitch for Optima

Here's a pic of Optima/Mid geared diffs. You can see the belt pitch is totally different:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tL3VrG8BIgo/SCmzluC9YKI/AAAAAAAAIOw/HNikoe2x4xE/s1600/Belt%2BKit%2Boptima2%2Bcopy_resize.jpg

[oosh123]

There is an auction on ebay uk now for 2 pairs of front diffs. The seller says these are optima mid diffs but to me they look like Lazer Gear diffs. The seller isnt too sure but you guys can help confirm that i am right ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230752942662&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

They do look like they are a set of gear diffs for the lazer.

And the front and rear diff of the lazer is the same.

[Welshy40]

Minus the drive cups

[alcyon]

Definately Lazer gear diffs, the pulley is the wrong pitch for Optima

Here's a pic of Optima/Mid geared diffs. You can see the belt pitch is totally different:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tL3VrG8BIgo/SCmzluC9YKI/AAAAAAAAIOw/HNikoe2x4xE/s1600/Belt%2BKit%2Boptima2%2Bcopy_resize.jpg
hey interesting pic. what blogspot is this?

[oosh123]

Sigh... I made some terrible mistakes and learnt a very valuable lesson with my lazer.

After a tired some day of work, I got home to break in my new ball diffs. Tightening the slipper to do so, the ball diffs are now nice and smooth. After the diffs, I had to set my slipper again. Being tired and all, somehow I tried to set up the slipper as a 2wd. (holding the rear tires and hit throttle to get the front wheels to jump around 3 inches). As you know, this did not end well, the front didn't jump, so I throttle some more. After 2 tries, both front and rear belts snapped. In shock of realizing what I have done, I quickly disassemble the lazer and found out that the pulleys and diffs are all okay. That was a close one.

Amazingly, the teeth on the blue belts that snapped have no wear on them. I guess under a lot of torque, something have got to give. Luckily it's the belt.

So the lesson is, don't try to set up your car when you are dead tired. For some reason, the most obvious things will go unnoticed.

[alcyon]

Sigh...

So the lesson is, don't try to set up your car when you are dead tired. For some reason, the most obvious things will go unnoticed.

I totally understand, but eventhough i am very tired, if i dont fix my car on that day itself, it will always bother me even when i go to bed, its like something that i didnt finish...so i just have to go fix the car..same thing that happened to you !

[Welshy40]

Im the same, it drives me crazy so have to rebuild then and there. Well first drawing has come my way and is now being redone, then when I am happy will add my changes and get the first two plates made. Im going to have to make the gearbox minus a chassis as mine is still broken and the mold will take a little while to make me my tub chassis. Still will show pics when the gearbox is made.

Also the belts snapping is a problem we will have until we sort the slipper clutch out. Ive never managed to snap a front though which has kindof surprised me that you managed that. Due to this my next task after the gearbox CF design has been sorted is the slipper layshaft.

Ive also got to get alloy pivot blocks as well as mine are bent fractionally after the crash (just noticed) so new set needed.

[kek23k]

hey interesting pic. what blogspot is this?

I just grabbed it from a google search, I did the search again to find the page for you:

http://theoptimahouse.blogspot.com/2008/05/belt-drive-kit-for-optima.html

Looking at this makes me wonder, what would it handle like with saddle pack lipos, carbon chassis and modern or ZXR suspension geometry? ;Dx

[oosh123]

Guys,

Do anyone know what's the ID of the B4 Slipper plates?

I want to use the most out of the B4 slipper pads. I made one set out of stainless, but because the material is too thin, it bends under load.

Thanks

[alcyon]

I just grabbed it from a google search, I did the search again to find the page for you:

http://theoptimahouse.blogspot.com/2008/05/belt-drive-kit-for-optima.html

Looking at this makes me wonder, what would it handle like with saddle pack lipos, carbon chassis and modern or ZXR suspension geometry? ;Dx
dude, i am already doing that. My optima Mid Has Lazer ZX-R arms, c hubs, rear hubs and shock towers. it also has the B4 Slipper clutch. and i use a Lipo 5400mah battery with 10.5T motor. I exchanged the standard middle plastic gear to pargu2000s aluminium one which handle loads better. i am pleased to say the car drives better than it did, and i am waiting for my big bore shocks to come for the ultimate rough track handling. here is my blog.
http://superturbooptimamidspecialzx-5.blogspot.com/

and my videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdBUdcm15Xg

[alcyon]

Guys,

Do anyone know what's the ID of the B4 Slipper plates?

I want to use the most out of the B4 slipper pads. I made one set out of stainless, but because the material is too thin, it bends under load.

Thanks
internal ID is 4.6mm, and the flats are wee bit less than 3.2mm. be careful you need to tune the tolerances carefully.

[kek23k]

dude, i am already doing that. My optima Mid Has Lazer ZX-R arms, c hubs, rear hubs and shock towers. it also has the B4 Slipper clutch. and i use a Lipo 5400mah battery with 10.5T motor. I exchanged the standard middle plastic gear to pargu2000s aluminium one which handle loads better. i am pleased to say the car drives better than it did, and i am waiting for my big bore shocks to come for the ultimate rough track handling. here is my blog.
http://superturbooptimamidspecialzx-5.blogspot.com/

and my videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdBUdcm15Xg

Oh I know and very good it looks too but I was talking about doing it with an Optima, not a mid, so it would be rear engined! ;Dx

[alcyon]

Guys i had some fun today with my Pal, with His ZX-R and my Optima Mid. Unfortunately he broke a bellcrank arm. i told him to buy a servo saver but he didnt. i expected the servo to go but i never expected the left bellcrank arm to snap. I took out my ZX bellcrank arm to fix it in his car, but mine snapped too while fixing it in ! so now i have a favour to ask from you guys, since i know most of you have the blue kyosho steering parts, can any of you guys sell to me the bellcrank arm as shown in the picture ? i need at least 2. The bellcrank arm in the pic is super glued back, just to keep them together, but i defo cant use them for sure they will snap again.

[alcyon]

I raced around with my friends ZX-R today and found something interesting. I lent him my OT-66 tyres on Optima Mid rims, and i used Proline M3s. on hard packed surface like cement, the M3s were a little better. But on the grass and loose pebbled sand, I was eating his dust ! Everytime i punched the gas out of a corner, my rear end swung around, wasting precious time, and everytime i tried going into a corner, i understeered. But my friend with his OT-66 equiped ZX-R just shot off with traction and lots of steering without loosing control ! These tyres are worth a try at my local track the next time i am there. i placed them on my MID and it handled with almost perfect traction and more steering. in fact on the grass, i almost traction rolled a few times. Here is some pic my buddy took of his ZX-R with my rims and tyres.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/2012-03-03173202.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/2012-03-03173237.jpg

[alcyon]

Oh I know and very good it looks too but I was talking about doing it with an Optima, not a mid, so it would be rear engined! ;Dx
Maybe you could try that since i dont have an optima. But i heard the optima will understeer because of the rear motor overhang.

[Welshy40]

Guys i had some fun today with my Pal, with His ZX-R and my Optima Mid. Unfortunately he broke a bellcrank arm. i told him to buy a servo saver but he didnt. i expected the servo to go but i never expected the left bellcrank arm to snap. I took out my ZX bellcrank arm to fix it in his car, but mine snapped too while fixing it in ! so now i have a favour to ask from you guys, since i know most of you have the blue kyosho steering parts, can any of you guys sell to me the bellcrank arm as shown in the picture ? i need at least 2. The bellcrank arm in the pic is super glued back, just to keep them together, but i defo cant use them for sure they will snap again.

Look on ebay under lazer zxr or zx and the blue items are there

[kek23k]

I raced around with my friends ZX-R today and found something interesting. I lent him my OT-66 tyres on Optima Mid rims, and i used Proline M3s.

If you check that Optima House blog there's a link to someone who is making OT-66 repros now :Dx

[alcyon]

If you check that Optima House blog there's a link to someone who is making OT-66 repros now :Dx
yes i am using those.

[alcyon]

Look on ebay under lazer zxr or zx and the blue items are there
welshy i just want the normal parts not the blue ones. those are too expensive. i figured since many of you already use the blue parts, the originals will be sitting idle doing nothing, might as well sell them to me.

[alcyon]

I just made a video yesterday of my slipper clutch working. have a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdUQhxZO0ig

The OT-66 tyres in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYu7hYSoF0c

My pals Lazer ZX-R jumping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQPoxYsrjk8

[Welshy40]

welshy i just want the normal parts not the blue ones. those are too expensive. i figured since many of you already use the blue parts, the originals will be sitting idle doing nothing, might as well sell them to me.

Ok now i understand. I broke my standard ones so only have blue. I would advise buying the large kimbrough servo saver as thats what i use to stop breakages. There has got to be someone here who has one.

Also saw you slipper video plus the drawing of the layshaft. I think you have sorted this design and we do need the slot for the pin to hold in an alloy pulley for the rear belt in the zx/zxr. This means we dont need the layshaft hub and kindof makes life easier plus lightens the load on the layshaft. If you can do you think you could redesign for the zx, with of couse the threaded end for the one way as well?

[alcyon]

Ok now i understand. I broke my standard ones so only have blue. I would advise buying the large kimbrough servo saver as thats what i use to stop breakages. There has got to be someone here who has one.

Also saw you slipper video plus the drawing of the layshaft. I think you have sorted this design and we do need the slot for the pin to hold in an alloy pulley for the rear belt in the zx/zxr. This means we dont need the layshaft hub and kindof makes life easier plus lightens the load on the layshaft. If you can do you think you could redesign for the zx, with of couse the threaded end for the one way as well?
Anyone else got the used OTW-10 parts i need?
Welshy i can work on the shaft design, but its gonna take me time. i took about 2 months to sort out the shaft for my optima mid, spent a few hours after work at my home to draw the original shaft, then mate it to the b4 outer part, then create a drawing. the last bit is to wait for the machinist to make the prototype for me. It takes about 2 - 3 weeks for 1 prototype. learning from the 1st mistake (i only got the shaft working on my 2nd prototype) i made with my Optima Mid Shaft prototype, i should be able to get it right the first time around for the ZX shaft. But you guys gotta give me some time. i'd be honoured if i could find a good solution that everyone can use.

[Welshy40]

Anyone else got the used OTW-10 parts i need?
Welshy i can work on the shaft design, but its gonna take me time. i took about 2 months to sort out the shaft for my optima mid, spent a few hours after work at my home to draw the original shaft, then mate it to the b4 outer part, then create a drawing. the last bit is to wait for the machinist to make the prototype for me. It takes about 2 - 3 weeks for 1 prototype. learning from the 1st mistake (i only got the shaft working on my 2nd prototype) i made with my Optima Mid Shaft prototype, i should be able to get it right the first time around for the ZX shaft. But you guys gotta give me some time. i'd be honoured if i could find a good solution that everyone can use.

Waiting is not a problem. Should be a good design. The plan is to have a fixed rear layshaft pulley, using a tamiya alloy pulley or something similar.

[alcyon]

Waiting is not a problem. Should be a good design. The plan is to have a fixed rear layshaft pulley, using a tamiya alloy pulley or something similar.
yes i see the problem now. The only way to hold the original Rear pulley in is with the rear splitter hub, so with the new shaft using the b4 slipper plates, a different pulley must be used. do you have a suitable pulley in mind? also what is the diameter of the shaft itself? is it 4mm? if it is then touring car pulleys will fit. But anyway i still need to make some kind hub to fit on the shaft and the bearing 10mm (or 8mm?) ID to take up the abscence of the rear hub.. if i remeber it right the layshaft bearings are 8x14mm?

[alcyon]

i forgot to ask one important thing. the B4 spur gears as far as i know arent anywhere near the size of the lazers 100tooth spur. Do you have a RW spur for the lazer that can fit the B4 slipper pads?

[Welshy40]

i forgot to ask one important thing. the B4 spur gears as far as i know arent anywhere near the size of the lazers 100tooth spur. Do you have a RW spur for the lazer that can fit the B4 slipper pads?

I redesigned the spur gear a while ago and is basically identical to the original but has an associated hex milled out on either side. RW racing sell them.

[alcyon]

I redesigned the spur gear a while ago and is basically identical to the original but has an associated hex milled out on either side. RW racing sell them.
i sent you an email about a few things to sort out.

[alcyon]

i am starting on the design work now and already i forsee some big problems. for The Lazer its not as simple as the optima mid. The huge problem i see now are the pulleys. in order to make the left side front one way work, we will need to use the inner thrust bearings, and still maintain the correct pulley spacing to ensure that it lines up with the diff pulleys. The problem is the rear side of the thrust bearing is actually inside the rear pulley. You cant just slap a tamiya or drift TC hub type pulley next to one way, you actually have to machine a step into the new pulley so that the thrust bearing can sit inside it to maintain the correct pulley spacing.

here are a few possible work arounds.
1. forget about the top shaft one way. A new long pulley must be machined with a divider in the middle. This new one piece pulley will have a 8mm step extending outwards both on the left and the right ends to support the inner 8mm of the 8x14 bearings, with one end having a grub screw to tighten to the layshaft. the right side of the pulley will touch with the inner side of the B4 slipper plate to support it.
Pros : easy to design
Cons : In addition to making a new shaft, and new pulley must also be machined, making it costly.

2. Keep the left side with the original one way and pulley. On the right side, machine a new pulley with a 8mm step on the right side extending outwards to touch the inner side of the B4 slipper plate. Of course this pulley has a grub screw also to lock it in position. The left side of the pulley is machined a step to allow the thrust bearings to sit inside it like the originals.
Pros : can keep the one way.cheaper than option 1.
Cons : still have to make a new pulley.

Option 3.
Keep the left side with original one way and pulley and thrust bearings, also re use the original rear pulley. But machine a layshaft with a 8mm step and with the spline slots, much like the peak performance layshaft. Basically this one will be a peak performance layshaft with a longer end that will match up with the B4 slipper parts.
Pros : only the shaft needs to be made, should be the cheapest and most practical option.
Cons, getting the spline slot spacing right could be tricky, or machining the spline might be expensive.

i beleive option 3 will the best.

[sz3]

i am starting on the design work now and already i forsee some big problems. for The Lazer its not as simple as the optima mid. The huge problem i see now are the pulleys. in order to make the left side front one way work, we will need to use the inner thrust bearings, and still maintain the correct pulley spacing to ensure that it lines up with the diff pulleys. The problem is the rear side of the thrust bearing is actually inside the rear pulley. You cant just slap a tamiya or drift TC hub type pulley next to one way, you actually have to machine a step into the new pulley so that the thrust bearing can sit inside it to maintain the correct pulley spacing.

here are a few possible work arounds.
1. forget about the top shaft one way. A new long pulley must be machined with a divider in the middle. This new one piece pulley will have a 8mm step extending outwards both on the left and the right ends to support the inner 8mm of the 8x14 bearings, with one end having a grub screw to tighten to the layshaft. the right side of the pulley will touch with the inner side of the B4 slipper plate to support it.
Pros : easy to design
Cons : In addition to making a new shaft, and new pulley must also be machined, making it costly.

2. Keep the left side with the original one way and pulley. On the right side, machine a new pulley with a 8mm step on the right side extending outwards to touch the inner side of the B4 slipper plate. Of course this pulley has a grub screw also to lock it in position. The left side of the pulley is machined a step to allow the thrust bearings to sit inside it like the originals.
Pros : can keep the one way.cheaper than option 1.
Cons : still have to make a new pulley.

Option 3.
Keep the left side with original one way and pulley and thrust bearings, also re use the original rear pulley. But machine a layshaft with a 8mm step and with the spline slots, much like the peak performance layshaft. Basically this one will be a peak performance layshaft with a longer end that will match up with the B4 slipper parts.
Pros : only the shaft needs to be made, should be the cheapest and most practical option.
Cons, getting the spline slot spacing right could be tricky, or machining the spline might be expensive.

i beleive option 3 will the best.

Isn't your left hand (front) pulley assembled in the wrong way? According to the manual both sides of the thrust bearings are inside the pulleys, aren't they?

[Welshy40]

i am starting on the design work now and already i forsee some big problems. for The Lazer its not as simple as the optima mid. The huge problem i see now are the pulleys. in order to make the left side front one way work, we will need to use the inner thrust bearings, and still maintain the correct pulley spacing to ensure that it lines up with the diff pulleys. The problem is the rear side of the thrust bearing is actually inside the rear pulley. You cant just slap a tamiya or drift TC hub type pulley next to one way, you actually have to machine a step into the new pulley so that the thrust bearing can sit inside it to maintain the correct pulley spacing.

here are a few possible work arounds.
1. forget about the top shaft one way. A new long pulley must be machined with a divider in the middle. This new one piece pulley will have a 8mm step extending outwards both on the left and the right ends to support the inner 8mm of the 8x14 bearings, with one end having a grub screw to tighten to the layshaft. the right side of the pulley will touch with the inner side of the B4 slipper plate to support it.
Pros : easy to design
Cons : In addition to making a new shaft, and new pulley must also be machined, making it costly.

2. Keep the left side with the original one way and pulley. On the right side, machine a new pulley with a 8mm step on the right side extending outwards to touch the inner side of the B4 slipper plate. Of course this pulley has a grub screw also to lock it in position. The left side of the pulley is machined a step to allow the thrust bearings to sit inside it like the originals.
Pros : can keep the one way.cheaper than option 1.
Cons : still have to make a new pulley.

Option 3.
Keep the left side with original one way and pulley and thrust bearings, also re use the original rear pulley. But machine a layshaft with a 8mm step and with the spline slots, much like the peak performance layshaft. Basically this one will be a peak performance layshaft with a longer end that will match up with the B4 slipper parts.
Pros : only the shaft needs to be made, should be the cheapest and most practical option.
Cons, getting the spline slot spacing right could be tricky, or machining the spline might be expensive.

i beleive option 3 will the best.

Im confused. How can option 3 be easier and cheaper as there is more work. Still you do actually make a good point so we will only need to fit the spur gear, pads, and the front plate from a B4 as well as the thrust race and spring.

I still think a lot of people like me prefer the one way and with this option if someone wants a permanent 4wd all they do is tighten it up. Still if you put a slot in the layshaft for a pin to go through so you can bolt the pulley to it then once fitted you don't need to fit the e clip on the layshaft and due to this you can use a bearing instead of the thrust race and means that the bearing will be thinner and should be enough to make a perfect fit. Other option I like was having a flat spot on the layshaft and using an allen key to bolt the pulley to, but as you say is costly to make.

[Welshy40]

Isn't your left hand (front) pulley assembled in the wrong way? According to the manual both sides of the thrust bearings are inside the pulleys, aren't they?

Yes your right, one of the pulleys (left one with the one way attached is the wrong way around)

[isobarik]

Waiting is not a problem. Should be a good design. The plan is to have a fixed rear layshaft pulley, using a tamiya alloy pulley or something similar.

i think you have to get the 14 teeth pulleys from superijcon
since tamiay smallest is 15

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

I forgot to mention my cad drawing been done and hope to by next week have my proto.

[alcyon]

Im confused. How can option 3 be easier and cheaper as there is more work. Still you do actually make a good point so we will only need to fit the spur gear, pads, and the front plate from a B4 as well as the thrust race and spring.

I still think a lot of people like me prefer the one way and with this option if someone wants a permanent 4wd all they do is tighten it up. Still if you put a slot in the layshaft for a pin to go through so you can bolt the pulley to it then once fitted you don't need to fit the e clip on the layshaft and due to this you can use a bearing instead of the thrust race and means that the bearing will be thinner and should be enough to make a perfect fit. Other option I like was having a flat spot on the layshaft and using an allen key to bolt the pulley to, but as you say is costly to make.
i beleive option 3 will be cheaper becuase making a new pulley would be more expensive, as far as i know machining a pulley isnt cheap. about putting in a normal bearing into the one way side pulley, i beleive that may not be an option. Kyosho designed it with a thrust bearing becuase you may actually tighthen the outer nut to the max, to stop the one way action(or course also to allow the torque split to work). If you were to do that with a normal bearing on the inside, it may possibly be damaged becuase radial bearings dont take too much axial loads well. Still it could work because once you tighthen it the bearing shouldnt rotate on its own.i will have to try this out if its possible. The problem is finding a bearing that would fit, cause the only available one should be 4x8 and i think it wont go in the pulley side step. But however it could prove useless becuase the normal 4x8 bearing thickness will probably extend to the other pulley too. you guys said i fitted the front pulley wrong? ok i will try to fit them the other way tonight and see how it looks like. Sorry, i havent touched my lazer in a long long time ! well whatever it is, lets brainstorm and find the best solution.

[oosh123]

I like the third option of a new longer layshaft.

but I will also make a larger diff ring. one that is OD 30mm and ID 14mm to utiliize all the unused b4 slipper pad.

[alcyon]

i think i get what Welshy means. there is a type of pulley which is hubless and uses a 1mm slot, to place a pin inside to lock it. Unfortunately the only car i found using that system is the kawada sv-10 from 1998-2002. the pulley is very compact and can work for the lazer, now all is left is to find a similar pulley.i will post a pic of the pulley tonight.

[oosh123]

I just thought of a easy retro fit to accomplish what we needed.

since the original design can fit everything except the thrust spring. We could add an extension shaft to the spur gear side using the M3 thread that's already on it. On this extension shaft, the length will be able to fit the thrust spring with a M3 thread at the end.

I think this is the cheapest way of having a extended layshaft.

[Welshy40]

i beleive option 3 will be cheaper becuase making a new pulley would be more expensive, as far as i know machining a pulley isnt cheap. about putting in a normal bearing into the one way side pulley, i beleive that may not be an option. Kyosho designed it with a thrust bearing becuase you may actually tighthen the outer nut to the max, to stop the one way action(or course also to allow the torque split to work). If you were to do that with a normal bearing on the inside, it may possibly be damaged becuase radial bearings dont take too much axial loads well. Still it could work because once you tighthen it the bearing shouldnt rotate on its own.i will have to try this out if its possible. The problem is finding a bearing that would fit, cause the only available one should be 4x8 and i think it wont go in the pulley side step. But however it could prove useless becuase the normal 4x8 bearing thickness will probably extend to the other pulley too. you guys said i fitted the front pulley wrong? ok i will try to fit them the other way tonight and see how it looks like. Sorry, i havent touched my lazer in a long long time ! well whatever it is, lets brainstorm and find the best solution.

I think i understand you. The oneway hub, opposite to the oneway for the front belt doesnt need a bearing at all. The only oneway required is for the front belt.

Also there are loads of different size bearings that fit the layshaft, if memory serves me correctly i opted for a bearing from my sponsers motor and fitted perfectly. It was from a brushed motor. This made the car a bit more free so try it and see.

[isobarik]

14 teeth aluminum pulleys are easy to find and should be possible to order from youre LHS i know since thats what i did anyway.

mvh Isobarik

[alcyon]

ok now we all have 2 options that i narrowed down.
1. New layshaft that uses new rear pulley but existing front pulley and one way. This layshaft will be cheapest to produce, but a new pulley must be bought, like from MISUMI corporation, the problem is you need to buy 2 things, the new layshaft and new aluminium pulley. Might not be cheap. With this option, you only need to use 1 original pulley, so saves you 1 piece original pulley, extending original pulley life. the pulley catalog is shown. note that 14 Tooth is the minimum pulley size and it has set screw in the middle of a tooth, the shaft ID is also 4mm, perfect for the Lazer.

Option 2.
New layshaft with peak performance style spline slot. That means both the front and rear original lazer pulleys must be used. Now the question is, how hard is it to get new Kyosho lazer pulleys if your current ones wear out? If the original pulleys can last very long or is easy to get, then this option makes the most sense cause you only need to buy the layshaft.

I can make a 3D solidworks model for both, you guys have a look and vote on it.

Pic 1, Misumi industrial S3M pulley catalog, pulley uses M3 grub screw in between a tooth for lock pulley.
Pic 2. Kawada Sv-10 Aluminium 16T pulley, look how compact it is. will fit great on the lazer layshaft.
Pic 3 Kawada SV-10 pulley side view, notice the slot cut into it. for the 1mm pin to lock the pulley.
Pic 4. Kawada SV-10 Layshaft, its 4mm like the lazers, and the pin holes are 1mm. i have yet to break these layshafts on my SV-10 eventhough i have ran the car for 10 years + and used crazy motors on it.
Pic 5 My Kawada SV-10 Alcyon II, yes thats where i got my name.Notice how simliar it is to the Lazer, graphite saddle pack chassis, twin belts, mid motor, layshaft above the motor.
Can anyone find a similar pulley in 14T?

[Ema]

I think that the type of pulley used into RC cars is HTD 3M, so not really sure that the mitsumi pulley will works correctly.

Bye
Ema

[alcyon]

I think that the type of pulley used into RC cars is HTD 3M, so not really sure that the mitsumi pulley will works correctly.

Bye
Ema
according to the catalog is S3M, and i checked with the Kawada belt it also says S3M. if this pulley doesnt work, have any of you seen any pulley that is similar in mounting to the kawada pulley i shown?

[isobarik]

As i posted before yes i have an 14 S3M pully that is avaliable from the LHS since thats where i got them from, pin fastening.

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Iso what make/brand is the pulley?

[Welshy40]

ok now we all have 2 options that i narrowed down.
1. New layshaft that uses new rear pulley but existing front pulley and one way. This layshaft will be cheapest to produce, but a new pulley must be bought, like from MISUMI corporation, the problem is you need to buy 2 things, the new layshaft and new aluminium pulley. Might not be cheap. With this option, you only need to use 1 original pulley, so saves you 1 piece original pulley, extending original pulley life. the pulley catalog is shown. note that 14 Tooth is the minimum pulley size and it has set screw in the middle of a tooth, the shaft ID is also 4mm, perfect for the Lazer.

Option 2.
New layshaft with peak performance style spline slot. That means both the front and rear original lazer pulleys must be used. Now the question is, how hard is it to get new Kyosho lazer pulleys if your current ones wear out? If the original pulleys can last very long or is easy to get, then this option makes the most sense cause you only need to buy the layshaft.

I can make a 3D solidworks model for both, you guys have a look and vote on it.

Pic 1, Misumi industrial S3M pulley catalog, pulley uses M3 grub screw in between a tooth for lock pulley.
Pic 2. Kawada Sv-10 Aluminium 16T pulley, look how compact it is. will fit great on the lazer layshaft.
Pic 3 Kawada SV-10 pulley side view, notice the slot cut into it. for the 1mm pin to lock the pulley.
Pic 4. Kawada SV-10 Layshaft, its 4mm like the lazers, and the pin holes are 1mm. i have yet to break these layshafts on my SV-10 eventhough i have ran the car for 10 years + and used crazy motors on it.
Pic 5 My Kawada SV-10 Alcyon II, yes thats where i got my name.Notice how simliar it is to the Lazer, graphite saddle pack chassis, twin belts, mid motor, layshaft above the motor.
Can anyone find a similar pulley in 14T?

I think your now seeing why i prefer doing this with the layshaft with a pin holding the pulley in place.

[isobarik]

Iso what make/brand is the pulley?


Its a well known brand :thumbsup:...............

and i have 6 of them...... i think

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Its a well known brand :thumbsup:...............

and i have 6 of them...... i think

mvh Isobarik

Tamiya, kyosho, a&l tbh i have zero idea

[alcyon]

I think your now seeing why i prefer doing this with the layshaft with a pin holding the pulley in place.
Welshy, still no one has told me, how easy is it to get new original Lazer pulleys, or alternatively, could they last very very long? i have yet to change my pulleys, but i only used my Lazer for like a few years so i wont know.

Also i might be able to locate 39655 blue steering parts at a good price, question is do i need to cut the parts and if yes at which area?

[Welshy40]

Welshy, still no one has told me, how easy is it to get new original Lazer pulleys, or alternatively, could they last very very long? i have yet to change my pulleys, but i only used my Lazer for like a few years so i wont know.

Also i might be able to locate 39655 blue steering parts at a good price, question is do i need to cut the parts and if yes at which area?

The pulleys last quite some time if using a lower wind motor like a 10.5 but if using a 5.5 then at the moment not long however this is the reason why im redesigning the rear gearbox with tensioners to stop this hsppening. With a revised layshaft designed and made by you we should have stopped the belt snapping and damaging the pulley. The pulleys can be made by my friend Matt but all dependant on his work load and his prices are very resonable.

Blue steering you dont need to cut at all but i tend to cut the end lug off by cutting through the last screw hole where the servo tie rod attaches but not really needed if its not rubbing on the belt.

[isobarik]

Tamiya, kyosho, a&l tbh i have zero idea

Its KYOSHO .....damn arent i like the best parts finder in the world ???:woot::thumbsup::lol:

mvh Isobarik

[oosh123]

according to the catalog is S3M, and i checked with the Kawada belt it also says S3M. if this pulley doesnt work, have any of you seen any pulley that is similar in mounting to the kawada pulley i shown?

Kyosho Spider Alloy Pulleys

[isobarik]

Kyosho Spider Alloy Pulleys

ta da........:thumbsup:

mvh Isobarik

[alcyon]

Kyosho Spider Alloy Pulleys
hmm but i thought the spider is out of production... anyway can you show me a pic of those pulleys front and side view?

[alcyon]

The pulleys last quite some time if using a lower wind motor like a 10.5 but if using a 5.5 then at the moment not long however this is the reason why im redesigning the rear gearbox with tensioners to stop this hsppening. With a revised layshaft designed and made by you we should have stopped the belt snapping and damaging the pulley. The pulleys can be made by my friend Matt but all dependant on his work load and his prices are very resonable.

Blue steering you dont need to cut at all but i tend to cut the end lug off by cutting through the last screw hole where the servo tie rod attaches but not really needed if its not rubbing on the belt.
thats good if original type pulleys can be remade, so should i first design the layshaft to use original pulleys for the rear?

[Welshy40]

ta da........:thumbsup:

mvh Isobarik

Its going to be one of those days :woot:

[Welshy40]

thats good if original type pulleys can be remade, so should i first design the layshaft to use original pulleys for the rear?

Im now wondering about this now. Maybe you are right as if we fit a hole in the layshaft how are we going to fit the void between the pulley and outer bearing? Maybe the solution is your A&L idea.

[alcyon]

Im now wondering about this now. Maybe you are right as if we fit a hole in the layshaft how are we going to fit the void between the pulley and outer bearing? Maybe the solution is your A&L idea.

filling the void, is a machined step in the shaft itself, whether using the peak performance style layshaft or the one with the pin, thats step will be there to take the place of the missing rear layshaft hub, to hold the outer 8x14mm bearing. Now...it rained tonight with lightning so i did not log on to the net tonight..until now. i was doing a week long download and compilation of various vintage tamiya and kyosho videos to put on a DVD so that i can watch them on my big screen LCD TV, but since it was a thunderstorm and couldnt log on, i spent about 2 hours plus on the layshaft design. i already got a working idea, have a look at the pic.
PIC 1 shows the layshaft assembled with the B4 slipper plates, spur gear, and spring in place. Note the spring is set at zero compression so thats why the nut looks like its far out at the edge. Also slipper pads not shown but you get the idea.
Pic 2. The layshaft only from slipper spur gear side. note the B4 end that will work perfectly with the B4 parts. the "wall" after the flat to hold the B4 plate, is to stabilise the B4 plate becuase the end of the B4 plate will sit on this wall. the diameter is 8mm. then it goes to 10mm, then back to 8mm to hold the inner 8x14mm bearing.
Pic 3. The layshaft as seen from One way side. Notice its as if the rear hub is bonded to the layshaft, peak performance style. So you can place in your original pulley for the rear. The circlip groove distance is exactly the same as the original ZX shaft. Asembling this shaft is by placing the 8x14mm bearing inside , then slot the layshaft from the spur gear side of the gearbox, next place in the rear pulley, then place in the thrust bearing parts, then lock your e clip in. then place your front pulley and one way hub, the end washer and the M3 Nut. Voila.

If you notice in the first picture that the hub looks like its somehow joined with the 4mm layshaft, well the actual part wont be like that. it will be one complete piece. In solidworks there is an option to create all the parts seperately then joined them together in a file part, by inserting a part into a part, thats why the shaft looks like its made of 2 pieces.
That means the stock material will follow the largest diameter on the part which is 10mm. then will be machined down to 8mm steps on left and right side, then to 4mm to place the one way, then to 3mm to thread the ends. You get the idea?

So if you guys got any suggestions,questions, objections, praises :D ,etc, voice it out now.

[Welshy40]

filling the void, is a machined step in the shaft itself, whether using the peak performance style layshaft or the one with the pin, thats step will be there to take the place of the missing rear layshaft hub, to hold the outer 8x14mm bearing. Now...it rained tonight with lightning so i did not log on to the net tonight..until now. i was doing a week long download and compilation of various vintage tamiya and kyosho videos to put on a DVD so that i can watch them on my big screen LCD TV, but since it was a thunderstorm and couldnt log on, i spent about 2 hours plus on the layshaft design. i already got a working idea, have a look at the pic.
PIC 1 shows the layshaft assembled with the B4 slipper plates, spur gear, and spring in place. Note the spring is set at zero compression so thats why the nut looks like its far out at the edge. Also slipper pads not shown but you get the idea.
Pic 2. The layshaft only from slipper spur gear side. note the B4 end that will work perfectly with the B4 parts. the "wall" after the flat to hold the B4 plate, is to stabilise the B4 plate becuase the end of the B4 plate will sit on this wall. the diameter is 8mm. then it goes to 10mm, then back to 8mm to hold the inner 8x14mm bearing.
Pic 3. The layshaft as seen from One way side. Notice its as if the rear hub is bonded to the layshaft, peak performance style. So you can place in your original pulley for the rear. The circlip groove distance is exactly the same as the original ZX shaft. Asembling this shaft is by placing the 8x14mm bearing inside , then slot the layshaft from the spur gear side of the gearbox, next place in the rear pulley, then place in the thrust bearing parts, then lock your e clip in. then place your front pulley and one way hub, the end washer and the M3 Nut. Voila.

If you notice in the first picture that the hub looks like its somehow joined with the 4mm layshaft, well the actual part wont be like that. it will be one complete piece. In solidworks there is an option to create all the parts seperately then joined them together in a file part, by inserting a part into a part, thats why the shaft looks like its made of 2 pieces.
That means the stock material will follow the largest diameter on the part which is 10mm. then will be machined down to 8mm steps on left and right side, then to 4mm to place the one way, then to 3mm to thread the ends. You get the idea?

So if you guys got any suggestions,questions, objections, praises :D ,etc, voice it out now.

Looks good, thats basically how I imagined it when I was trying to use the hyper clutch parts but the layshaft was too short. This should resolve all issues and also should mean that the layshaft pulleys will last a very long time.

Im still a bit puzzled by what you are saying about "then will be machined down to 8mm steps on left and right side, then to 4mm to place the one way, then to 3mm to thread the ends. You get the idea?" Im sorry if I sound dense (shut up Iso :lol:) but do I understand the one way which is on the opposite side of the gearbox will be 4mm depth and the other side where the slipper clutch is will be 8mm or am I being really dense (most probably especially the way I feel).

[Ema]

...

So if you guys got any suggestions,questions, objections, praises :D ,etc, voice it out now.



Amazing job :thumbsup: !!!!

Welshy, the 3mm parts are necessary to create the threaded sections for the two locknuts, one for the one way and one for the slipper (if alcyon don't want to use an imperial 5/40 nut ...).

Is a 3mm nut enough big to keep in place the B4 spring ?
Or maybe is it necessary a plate assembly like the B4.1 ?

In any case really a great job :thumbsup:, hope that sooner or later we can got it in our hands ;).

Bye
Ema

[adam lancia]

He's just explaining the machining steps. He's starting with 10mm stock. From the ridge on the right side it's going to be machined down to 8mm on each side (bearing on the right, splines for pulley on the left), then down to 4mm for the front one way hub assembly and the slipper plate flats, then down to 3mm so he can cut the 3mm threads for the lock nut.

EDIT: Looks like Ema beat me to part of the explanation.

3mm plus a washer of some sort would work I would think, something like the old steel thrust washers from the original Stealth slipper assembly would do nicely as long as it would fit over the 3mm threads.

[oosh123]

hmm but i thought the spider is out of production... anyway can you show me a pic of those pulleys front and side view?

I could if I didn't sold my spider a month ago =(

[Welshy40]

He's just explaining the machining steps. He's starting with 10mm stock. From the ridge on the right side it's going to be machined down to 8mm on each side (bearing on the right, splines for pulley on the left), then down to 4mm for the front one way hub assembly and the slipper plate flats, then down to 3mm so he can cut the 3mm threads for the lock nut.

EDIT: Looks like Ema beat me to part of the explanation.

3mm plus a washer of some sort would work I would think, something like the old steel thrust washers from the original Stealth slipper assembly would do nicely as long as it would fit over the 3mm threads.

Ok i was a bit dense but now i get it. Had a crap day, possibility of being made redundant.

[alcyon]

Amazing job :thumbsup: !!!!

Welshy, the 3mm parts are necessary to create the threaded sections for the two locknuts, one for the one way and one for the slipper (if alcyon don't want to use an imperial 5/40 nut ...).

Is a 3mm nut enough big to keep in place the B4 spring ?
Or maybe is it necessary a plate assembly like the B4.1 ?

In any case really a great job :thumbsup:, hope that sooner or later we can got it in our hands ;).

Bye
Ema
Thanks Ema,yes a 3mm locknut is more than enough to hold the spring in, the proof is my optima mid slipper which is working perfectly. For sure i wouldnt want to use the inch size nut that associated uses for the B4 ,i want somehting easy to get and standard.

[alcyon]

. From the ridge on the right side it's going to be machined down to 8mm on each side (bearing on the right, splines for pulley on the left), then down to 4mm for the front one way hub assembly and the slipper plate flats, then down to 3mm so he can cut the 3mm threads for the lock nut.


hi adam, you were wrong about the 8mm, looking at pic 2 in my proposal post,the bearing will be on the left side, same side as the rear pulley,the only reason i have the 8mm stepdown on the right side going to the B4 slipper side is to save some weight, and to support the B4 slipper plate. Otherwise i could have just leave the right side 10mm stock diameter. The 10mm diameter is also necessary to stop the shaft from moving to the left side, basically it takes the place of the rear hub.

[alcyon]

Ok i was a bit dense but now i get it. Had a crap day, possibility of being made redundant.
you mean job layoff ? i hope it doesnt come to that.

[alcyon]

Ok welshy, since its more or less sorted there are few things to get done.
1. RW spur. If its not too much trouble could you get RW to make an exact copy of the B4 spur in 98 or 100T? I suggest you to make the spur in the same thickness as the B4 one, because if i am not mistaken, the thickness of kyosho spur gear is a little less than the B4, which is about 5mm thick. and from my measurements, the B4 slipper hex grrove is 1mm deep each side compared to the 0.5mm you asked RW to make. Its up to you if you want to wait for my final protoype to be made or if you want to ask RW to come out with it now, so that we can get them concurently.

2. The gear cover needs to be modified, you could either send your gear cover to me to modify it, or you have to ream a hole by yourself, and i will supply you the clear plastic tube to cover the longer layshaft end. I ream the gear cover to the diameter of the tube, making sure its a tight fit, then adjust the angle and length correctly, then place silicon sealeant on the outer edges, let it set for one day, then place super glue around the seal both inside and outside.

[sz3]

...

So if you guys got any suggestions,questions, objections, praises :D ,etc, voice it out now.

Looks really great, can't wait to get one, too :thumbsup:. I assume we will have to modify the gearbox cover like you did on your Optima?

ps: Already answered while I was writing this post ;)

[alcyon]

i will work on the drawing tonight and complete it, my target is to go to the machinist this saturday morning, pass him the drawings, and the parts to test fit, that means, i cant drive my optima mid until the layshaft is ready ! The tricky part is deciding the tolerances.
The plan is to test fit the shaft on my ZX, once all fits, i send it to welshy to test under his extreme conditions, then he gives the verdict if we go ahead for "mass" production or revise some more.

[Welshy40]

I will call RW today and update you.

[isobarik]

What i did is that i took an RB5 shaft from my friend since he stripped the gear gave it to an friend of mine that removed the gear by machining it and then he drilled out the MMS lashaft that i had laying around and voila.... :lol:

mvh isobarik

[alcyon]

Ok, i just want to confirm with you guys who has the ZX, could you please assemble your layshaft complete but out of your car, and measure the dimensions i shown in the first drawing. i just want to confirm i am getting the right dimensions from the datum which is the one way side of the shaft.
Dimension B = 12.5mm
Dimension A Bearing to bearing outer = 27.5mm
Dimension C = 28.5mm

These are rough dimensions becuase added up they are 68.5mm not the total of 69 that i measured on the ZX shaft. Notice that the distance from the end of the shaft to the ZX rear hub plate is 55.5mm. Do you get this dimension on your ZX layshaft assembly?

Pic 2 shows a rough assembly drawing showing the position of the B4 inner plate. note i kept the distance the same with the ZX shaft at 55.5mm. Also from the total new layshaft length, you see that it is 79.5mm long, that means its 10.5mm longer than the original ZX layshaft.

Also need to ask a favor, any of you can sell to me cheaply some RW Lazer spurs that use the B4 slipper pads that welshy designed? My friend who runs the ZX-R just need the spurs and he wont be running my new layshaft, so this is good chance for you guys to get rid of the old stock.
Also there might be race coming the end of the month, and since my B4 plates will be at the machinist, i have nothing to put in my optima to practice and to race. i am trying to source a set from infernosonly.com but i am also trying to get a few kyosho parts at a go to save on shipping. Just in case i cant get it on time could some one borrow me the B4 slipper plates so that i can race?
Getting this Layshaft done has fired me up to rebuild back my ZX which is in pieces right now, and i target to have my personal ZX up and running with my new layshaft by the end of this year. But of course i target the layshaft to get to you guys much faster !

[isobarik]

Looking good alcyon

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Great drawing but isnt there supposed to be a thrust race between the spring and plate? If yes then may need to be a bit longer. Just looked at the b4 manual and there is no thrust race so all ok. Superb design and would love a cad drawing of that.

Alcyon, I will send you a new one of my spurs plus a new 100t b4 version when I get it.

[oosh123]

Ok, i just want to confirm with you guys who has the ZX, could you please assemble your layshaft complete but out of your car, and measure the dimensions i shown in the first drawing. i just want to confirm i am getting the right dimensions from the datum which is the one way side of the shaft.
Dimension B = 12.5mm
Dimension A Bearing to bearing outer = 27.5mm
Dimension C = 28.5mm

These are rough dimensions becuase added up they are 68.5mm not the total of 69 that i measured on the ZX shaft. Notice that the distance from the end of the shaft to the ZX rear hub plate is 55.5mm. Do you get this dimension on your ZX layshaft assembly?

Pic 2 shows a rough assembly drawing showing the position of the B4 inner plate. note i kept the distance the same with the ZX shaft at 55.5mm. Also from the total new layshaft length, you see that it is 79.5mm long, that means its 10.5mm longer than the original ZX layshaft.

Also need to ask a favor, any of you can sell to me cheaply some RW Lazer spurs that use the B4 slipper pads that welshy designed? My friend who runs the ZX-R just need the spurs and he wont be running my new layshaft, so this is good chance for you guys to get rid of the old stock.
Also there might be race coming the end of the month, and since my B4 plates will be at the machinist, i have nothing to put in my optima to practice and to race. i am trying to source a set from infernosonly.com but i am also trying to get a few kyosho parts at a go to save on shipping. Just in case i cant get it on time could some one borrow me the B4 slipper plates so that i can race?
Getting this Layshaft done has fired me up to rebuild back my ZX which is in pieces right now, and i target to have my personal ZX up and running with my new layshaft by the end of this year. But of course i target the layshaft to get to you guys much faster !

Just saw something and would like to point out.

I am not sure what your e-clip groove's dimension is because I can't see your shaft's part file. the e-clip groove OD for a 4mm shaft is 3.2mm +0/-.075 and the width should be .64 +.05/-0.

[alcyon]

Just saw something and would like to point out.

I am not sure what your e-clip groove's dimension is because I can't see your shaft's part file. the e-clip groove OD for a 4mm shaft is 3.2mm +0/-.075 and the width should be .64 +.05/-0.
Hi oosh, according to my JIS reference its 3mm+0.06 -0 on diameter, and width 0.7mm + 0.1 -0.in my experience having a very slighlty wider clip slot (0.1mm) does not affect the design. i did that on my mid shaft.
And i did not show you the part file yet cause i was in the middle of making the part drawing last night.
The drawing i showed in the post above was the assembly.

[alcyon]

Great drawing but isnt there supposed to be a thrust race between the spring and plate? If yes then may need to be a bit longer. Just looked at the b4 manual and there is no thrust race so all ok. Superb design and would love a cad drawing of that.

Alcyon, I will send you a new one of my spurs plus a new 100t b4 version when I get it.

Yes Welshy, there is no thrust race at the spur side, thats exactly why i chose the B4 slipper over Losi. The good thing about the losi design with thrust race is you can change the spur without changing the slipper setting. But how often do you change spur on an offroad car with a gear cover? Not often. So i opted for a cheaper and simpler design. besides i beleive Losi keeps changing their design, compared to asssociated, so parts for Assoc whould be easier to get over the long run. Made an appointment to see the machinist tommorow. i hope the shaft wont cost too much becuase of the 10 spline slots to cut. This week cant play RC. on Sunday i turn 36. Cant wait for the chocolate ice cream cake :drool:

[Welshy40]

I understand just couldnt remember if associated came with or without a thrust race. Been quite asleep recently.

Anyway to add to your layshaft design my gearbox design attached should look rather nice. Ok I have also done a cad drawing for the bottom section as well but will see which way I go on the design as the palstic option may be the best. Will keep you posted once I have the bits in front of me.

[alcyon]

I understand just couldnt remember if associated came with or without a thrust race. Been quite asleep recently.

Anyway to add to your layshaft design my gearbox design attached should look rather nice. Ok I have also done a cad drawing for the bottom section as well but will see which way I go on the design as the palstic option may be the best. Will keep you posted once I have the bits in front of me.

looks great, but i really have no idea how it looks depth wise, perhaps a 3D view or top view would do good ? Do you have the B4 parts already with you like the plates, pads and spring? If not you might consider to get them first so that you can plug and play when you receive the shaft, which could be end of march up second week of april.

[Welshy40]

Depth wise the two carbon fibre plates will be 2mm thick and will show pics when I get it built correctly next week.

I have the B4 items already and will have to make the centre hole bigger on the spur gear to match the B4 spurs as RW will be unable to make me 100t version until the first week of April. Send me a PM with your address as I can send you a new my spur gear (my version) so at least you can use that until we get the new spur.

[alcyon]

Depth wise the two carbon fibre plates will be 2mm thick and will show pics when I get it built correctly next week.

I have the B4 items already and will have to make the centre hole bigger on the spur gear to match the B4 spurs as RW will be unable to make me 100t version until the first week of April. Send me a PM with your address as I can send you a new my spur gear (my version) so at least you can use that until we get the new spur.
hmm, that gearbox sounds good, but it also sounds like the gearbox will be exposed, i wonder if you have a plan to cover the rear belt or perhaps you plan to leave it exposed like touring cars?
About the RW spur, that actually sounds good. if read you right, that means the current spur is 4mm? All i have to do is ream or drill the spur to 4.7mm and it will fit good. I have just done revising my drawing again as i find that the optima mid shaft is a little under the perfect diameter of 4.7mm, its 4.6 so my spur is sitting a little bit offset, i actually have to push it nicely to get it completely concentric. its acceptable on the optima mid cause i can just place some kind of tape to cover the shaft, but for the Lazer i am changing the drawing to a perfect 4.7mm. I really hope the machinist will be able to make a perfect fit like the original B4 shaft. otherwise maybe no need to remake the RW spur at all, why not just leave it as it is at 4mm, and let each user ream the hole themselves?
Of course that is one option so that we can use up all the current RW stock. Also could you send me one additional used spur to give to my friend ? That one does not have to be perfect, perhaps something that you consider not good enough for you to use in a race. sending you an email now.

Also another ZX question, i am now considering rebuliding my ZX, and it has the original fiberglass chassis. i wonder how strong is this chassis compared to the graphite. i snapped my optima mid graphite chassis and i dont want to snap my ZX fg chassis. i am going to use the fibreltye top deck.

[Welshy40]

hmm, that gearbox sounds good, but it also sounds like the gearbox will be exposed, i wonder if you have a plan to cover the rear belt or perhaps you plan to leave it exposed like touring cars?
About the RW spur, that actually sounds good. if read you right, that means the current spur is 4mm? All i have to do is ream or drill the spur to 4.7mm and it will fit good. I have just done revising my drawing again as i find that the optima mid shaft is a little under the perfect diameter of 4.7mm, its 4.6 so my spur is sitting a little bit offset, i actually have to push it nicely to get it completely concentric. its acceptable on the optima mid cause i can just place some kind of tape to cover the shaft, but for the Lazer i am changing the drawing to a perfect 4.7mm. I really hope the machinist will be able to make a perfect fit like the original B4 shaft. otherwise maybe no need to remake the RW spur at all, why not just leave it as it is at 4mm, and let each user ream the hole themselves?
Of course that is one option so that we can use up all the current RW stock. Also could you send me one additional used spur to give to my friend ? That one does not have to be perfect, perhaps something that you consider not good enough for you to use in a race. sending you an email now.

Also another ZX question, i am now considering rebuliding my ZX, and it has the original fiberglass chassis. i wonder how strong is this chassis compared to the graphite. i snapped my optima mid graphite chassis and i dont want to snap my ZX fg chassis. i am going to use the fibreltye top deck.

I only have new spurs, which cost me £5 each, so will send you 2 and your friend can sort you out with some money which can go towards the overall cost of the shaft your doing for me (I hope I make sense).

Chassis in GRP is flexible and my own opinion is not as strong as carbon fibre.

Spurs I guessed so cant confirm what size difference there is in the middle hole of the B4 and kyosho spur. I will measure the spur I am sending you and update you later on today.

My gearbox design is based lightly on the ZX-S design and will be an exposed gearbox. Its really down to how dirty the area is your racing on and if you want to cover it I cant see it being to difficult to do with either plastic or heat shrink (if you can find a big piece). Personally I wanted it exposed as you will be able to see the standard of the rear belt and in my design I am adding a tensioner at the very top over the layshaft pulley as well as below in the under side middle to give tension to the belt. The little tiny holes above the bearings are for a washer specifically made to hold the bearings in. The holes should now make sense on my picture. Plus with these lovely blue belts and all the blue bling I currently have on my car this will look superb!!!

[alcyon]

I only have new spurs, which cost me £5 each, so will send you 2 and your friend can sort you out with some money which can go towards the overall cost of the shaft your doing for me (I hope I make sense).

Chassis in GRP is flexible and my own opinion is not as strong as carbon fibre.

Spurs I guessed so cant confirm what size difference there is in the middle hole of the B4 and kyosho spur. I will measure the spur I am sending you and update you later on today.

My gearbox design is based lightly on the ZX-S design and will be an exposed gearbox. Its really down to how dirty the area is your racing on and if you want to cover it I cant see it being to difficult to do with either plastic or heat shrink (if you can find a big piece). Personally I wanted it exposed as you will be able to see the standard of the rear belt and in my design I am adding a tensioner at the very top over the layshaft pulley as well as below in the under side middle to give tension to the belt. The little tiny holes above the bearings are for a washer specifically made to hold the bearings in. The holes should now make sense on my picture. Plus with these lovely blue belts and all the blue bling I currently have on my car this will look superb!!!
ok understood you about the cost. i wonder if your new gearbox design will work on my old ZX. i just tried building up my ZX and found a few essential missing parts. i need the 1 belt roller and the pin for it that goes under the rear diff. is it LA-10 ? does it come with the little pin for it?
to complete the car i would have to buy WBD-1 for the ball diffs, then a front and rear fibrelyte shock towers, new 62.5mm CVDs all around, perhaps a new ZXS body and big bore shocks much later. Of course the new slipper shaft and the B4 parts to complete the drive train, should be super ! more avenues for me to dump whats little i have of m money !:drool:

[Welshy40]

ok understood you about the cost. i wonder if your new gearbox design will work on my old ZX. i just tried building up my ZX and found a few essential missing parts. i need the 1 belt roller and the pin for it that goes under the rear diff. is it LA-10 ? does it come with the little pin for it?
to complete the car i would have to buy WBD-1 for the ball diffs, then a front and rear fibrelyte shock towers, new 62.5mm CVDs all around, perhaps a new ZXS body and big bore shocks much later. Of course the new slipper shaft and the B4 parts to complete the drive train, should be super ! more avenues for me to dump whats little i have of m money !:drool:

The gearbox design will work with the zx but you wont be needing those pins and brass bushings with my design.

[alcyon]

I just came back from the machinist. He says he may have trouble making the spline slots becuase they are too small for his machines. He also told me he had to do the B4 side manually becuase it was too small for his CNCs. I know you might ask me, why not go to another machinist? Well i work as a design enginneer at a machine making company, and this guy is one my workplace suppliers, and i find his company to be reliable and keeps his promises and at reasonable cost. Of course i could try asking other places but i suspect the answer will be the same. You see most of the industry in malaysia is in medium to heavy industries, so i doubt there are any who make small stuff like kyosho and tamiya. The 2 possibilites could arise.
1. he can make the layshaft just like i want, but price could shoot up to 30 GBP just for me to pay the guy.
2. He can't make the spline slots at all.

So as a back up, we may have to go with the pin slot pulley. Now we have to decided within this week, which 14T pulley out there will suit our needs, make me a proposal and someone send a sample to me please.

[adam lancia]

Booooo to the small scale problems ;)

I don't mind the idea of the pin pulley system. You can then change the ratio front to back a little bit as there is probably enough slack in the rear belt to accommodate a 15 tooth rear pulley. I'd love to tinker with that a bit :) Thanks for all your work on this alcyon, I'm looking forward to having enough cash in my paypal account to pick up a few things from you when the time comes this summer :thumbsup:

[isobarik]

Booooo to the small scale problems ;)

I don't mind the idea of the pin pulley system. You can then change the ratio front to back a little bit as there is probably enough slack in the rear belt to accommodate a 15 tooth rear pulley. I'd love to tinker with that a bit :) Thanks for all your work on this alcyon, I'm looking forward to having enough cash in my paypal account to pick up a few things from you when the time comes this summer :thumbsup:

have the TF4 wich uses 15 tooth shall se if i can make the layshaft fit...

on the zxs there are lot of slack both front and rear

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

have the TF4 wich uses 15 tooth shall se if i can make the layshaft fit...

on the zxs there are lot of slack both front and rear

mvh Isobarik

Iso the zxs rear has vertually no slack and shouldnt be tighter. Do you have a part number for the 14 tooth pulley so i can buy one.

[Welshy40]

I just came back from the machinist. He says he may have trouble making the spline slots becuase they are too small for his machines. He also told me he had to do the B4 side manually becuase it was too small for his CNCs. I know you might ask me, why not go to another machinist? Well i work as a design enginneer at a machine making company, and this guy is one my workplace suppliers, and i find his company to be reliable and keeps his promises and at reasonable cost. Of course i could try asking other places but i suspect the answer will be the same. You see most of the industry in malaysia is in medium to heavy industries, so i doubt there are any who make small stuff like kyosho and tamiya. The 2 possibilites could arise.
1. he can make the layshaft just like i want, but price could shoot up to 30 GBP just for me to pay the guy.
2. He can't make the spline slots at all.

So as a back up, we may have to go with the pin slot pulley. Now we have to decided within this week, which 14T pulley out there will suit our needs, make me a proposal and someone send a sample to me please.

Cost is still good for what he can do. If i can get a pulley i will and send on as all that will be needed is a section added thats allen keyed to the layshaft so the bearing is holding the load correctly.

[alcyon]

Booooo to the small scale problems ;)

I don't mind the idea of the pin pulley system. You can then change the ratio front to back a little bit as there is probably enough slack in the rear belt to accommodate a 15 tooth rear pulley. I'd love to tinker with that a bit :) Thanks for all your work on this alcyon, I'm looking forward to having enough cash in my paypal account to pick up a few things from you when the time comes this summer :thumbsup:

haha adam, i dont think a 15T will fit in the current rear gearbox, as it is a 14T is already just nice and the belt feels just right too. I wonder what do you mean by few things, when i will only have the layshaft for sale ?:lol:


have the TF4 wich uses 15 tooth shall se if i can make the layshaft fit...

on the zxs there are lot of slack both front and rear

iso, please watch out for the pulley width. if i am not mistaken the belt width for the Lazer is 5mm, so the pulley must be at least 5.5mm wide internally. and if possible in 14T, perhaps a drift car pulley could work? i will try to search for the yokomo DRB or some drift car pulley. also the tf4 has been obsolete since 2005. may not be so wise to choose this car's parts.

If i can get a pulley i will and send on as all that will be needed is a section added thats allen keyed to the layshaft so the bearing is holding the load correctly.

Welshy, i dont think thats necessary, a pin slot type pulley like my Kawada touring car should work great. on the kawada TC, there is no allen key grub screw, you just slide in the pulley and tighthen the side nuts, usually with a small amount of play sidewards, and i never had any problems on my TC even with a lot of boost and turbo on my ESC. When you place in the one way and the end locknut, that is enough to keep the pulley from sliding left and right.

[alcyon]

just found this for a drift car, though its a little long, i think it may be possible to use because i can shorten the right side of the shaft a little, the tricky part will be how to tighthen the grub screw with the current gearbox in place? also need to use 4mm wide belts cause the pulley width is 4.4mm. after an hour of searching on the net i only found this. any of you can find the slot type? i found some slot type for kyosho gas cars but its 19T the smallest..

[sz3]

Maybe it helps, according to this older thread (in german):
https://rcworld.ch/board/forum_posts.asp?TID=9635&PN=7

Maedler (http://www.maedler.de (http://www.maedler.de/)) seems to be able to create the 14t pulleys for about 15€ a piece. They also have branch offices in malaysia and the uk.

[isobarik]

just found this for a drift car, though its a little long, i think it may be possible to use because i can shorten the right side of the shaft a little, the tricky part will be how to tighthen the grub screw with the current gearbox in place? also need to use 4mm wide belts cause the pulley width is 4.4mm. after an hour of searching on the net i only found this. any of you can find the slot type? i found some slot type for kyosho gas cars but its 19T the smallest..

Alcyon look at the superijcon shop they have alot of the 14 pylleys and even the diff 32 t pulley in alu ....

mvh isobarik

[Welshy40]

haha adam, i dont think a 15T will fit in the current rear gearbox, as it is a 14T is already just nice and the belt feels just right too. I wonder what do you mean by few things, when i will only have the layshaft for sale ?:lol:




iso, please watch out for the pulley width. if i am not mistaken the belt width for the Lazer is 5mm, so the pulley must be at least 5.5mm wide internally. and if possible in 14T, perhaps a drift car pulley could work? i will try to search for the yokomo DRB or some drift car pulley. also the tf4 has been obsolete since 2005. may not be so wise to choose this car's parts.



Welshy, i dont think thats necessary, a pin slot type pulley like my Kawada touring car should work great. on the kawada TC, there is no allen key grub screw, you just slide in the pulley and tighthen the side nuts, usually with a small amount of play sidewards, and i never had any problems on my TC even with a lot of boost and turbo on my ESC. When you place in the one way and the end locknut, that is enough to keep the pulley from sliding left and right.

How are you going to hold the layshaft on the outer gearbox bearing as the one way is holding the rear end of the layshaft in the bearing so guess you will need allen keying that section onto the other end so its situated securly against the bearing.

[alcyon]

How are you going to hold the layshaft on the outer gearbox bearing as the one way is holding the rear end of the layshaft in the bearing so guess you will need allen keying that section onto the other end so its situated securly against the bearing.

i will go restudy this and perhaps sketch it out for you to see.
anyway you now have the original drawing and see what you can do at your end.

[alcyon]

Alcyon look at the superijcon shop they have alot of the 14 pylleys and even the diff 32 t pulley in alu ....

mvh isobarik
iso, i cannot find such a shop with google, do you have the link?

[alcyon]

Maybe it helps, according to this older thread (in german):
https://rcworld.ch/board/forum_posts.asp?TID=9635&PN=7

Maedler (http://www.maedler.de (http://www.maedler.de/)) seems to be able to create the 14t pulleys for about 15€ a piece. They also have branch offices in malaysia and the uk.
i have just checked maedler website, seems the closest they have is HTD 3, not S3M, even then their minimum pulley width is 9mm, Misumi is better that they have S3M with 7mm internal width and 11mm total width. but anyway it may not be necessary as Welshy said there might be a guy close to him who could do the splines. and my machinist has not said no yet. whatever it is i will download the MISUMI 3D cad for the pulley and work out the alternative design.

[isobarik]

Alcyon

Im at work so if you got the time the link is on here otherwise i will post it when i get home.

http://www.rc-race-and-drift-japan.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=91_152_153&products_id=2639

They look like these exactly but of course with 14 instead of 13 tooth

mvh Isobarik

found this they have em

http://www.myrcstation.com/webshaper/store/viewCat.asp?catID=110

[Welshy40]

That shops in your neck of the woods and the one id like is the blue one way 14t pulley as you can use the one way the opposite way around, but if we can get the spline made at a reasonable cost this wont be needed. Im thinking a cheaper option on the spline and thats cutting an original one down from a a zx or zxr mk1 to fill the void for the bearing. That way we dont need to machine it and only need to worry about the layshaft.

Actually ive just cut an original zx one (took the plate off) and after doing that is roughly half a mm longer than the current one way. We should use the one way on the other side and may just need a spacer from that to the b4 plate and is easy as the zx has a spacer that can be cut to size. As its reversed the one way wont work if your driving forwards, and will work. Im testing this next week when i get my gearbox sides.

Also just measured the b4 spur gear hole which is 5mm and width is almost 3mm and the one i designed for the zx is 8mm and width is roughly 3mm

[alcyon]

That shops in your neck of the woods and the one id like is the blue one way 14t pulley as you can use the one way the opposite way around, but if we can get the spline made at a reasonable cost this wont be needed. Im thinking a cheaper option on the spline and thats cutting an original one down from a a zx or zxr mk1 to fill the void for the bearing. That way we dont need to machine it and only need to worry about the layshaft.

Actually ive just cut an original zx one (took the plate off) and after doing that is roughly half a mm longer than the current one way. We should use the one way on the other side and may just need a spacer from that to the b4 plate and is easy as the zx has a spacer that can be cut to size. As its reversed the one way wont work if your driving forwards, and will work. Im testing this next week when i get my gearbox sides.

Also just measured the b4 spur gear hole which is 5mm and width is almost 3mm and the one i designed for the zx is 8mm and width is roughly 3mm
Yes i know myrcstation, its about 25km from where i live. however i never imagined you would want to use a one way on the rear. anyway, its best we carefully think this out first and work out the assembly on CAD rather than buying a pulley but cant use it. give me some time to re draw everyhting in 3D for the original ZX layshaft assembly and reconfirm all the important points, lets take this slow and steady. By the way since i have given half of my parts to the machinist, i need your help to measure your ZX assembly. i will make a drawing, post it here and you fill the blanks for me. Will be ready in few days time. what you said about cutting the original rear hub at the plate is interesting, but that would kind of place the B4 inner plate too far out, unless you can cut more, i can give you the dimension to cut tommorow. Basically we want the external face of the inner b4 plate to sit exactly where the rear hub flat flange was.
However we still need to "bond" the rear hub the new layshaft somehow,and we need to find more of the rear hub just in case we screw up cutting the existing one. will talk to you all soon. gotta sleep now, another long day at work tommorow. Goodnight everyone.

[Welshy40]

Yes i know myrcstation, its about 25km from where i live. however i never imagined you would want to use a one way on the rear. anyway, its best we carefully think this out first and work out the assembly on CAD rather than buying a pulley but cant use it. give me some time to re draw everyhting in 3D for the original ZX layshaft assembly and reconfirm all the important points, lets take this slow and steady. By the way since i have given half of my parts to the machinist, i need your help to measure your ZX assembly. i will make a drawing, post it here and you fill the blanks for me. Will be ready in few days time. what you said about cutting the original rear hub at the plate is interesting, but that would kind of place the B4 inner plate too far out, unless you can cut more, i can give you the dimension to cut tommorow. Basically we want the external face of the inner b4 plate to sit exactly where the rear hub flat flange was.
However we still need to "bond" the rear hub the new layshaft somehow,and we need to find more of the rear hub just in case we screw up cutting the existing one. will talk to you all soon. gotta sleep now, another long day at work tommorow. Goodnight everyone.

While your asleep here is why I was thinking of the one way on the rear. As you are not allowed to reverse during events it wont do any harm havng the one way on the opposte side as it means you cant reverse as the one way will work one way so on the rear belt so will mean 100 percent drive to the rear and front wheels in forwards only. No drive in reverse. I cant cut it some more without removing the one way as I have already have taken a significant chunk out already so will post a picture next week sometime to show you what I mean with a normal layshaft. The oneway fits perfectly aligned against the plastic circle section on the gearbox casing so is sitting inside that section in line with the plastic so think this should be adeqauet for the job, as once the metal plate is fitted there will be enough space

If we can use this we dont need to bond it to the layshaft at all, so hope this now makes sense to you.

[Welshy40]

Here is the cut one wy fitted, so with an original normal one way it should fit perfectly

[alcyon]

Here is the cut one wy fitted, so with an original normal one way it should fit perfectly

if you use a one way 14T pulley in a reverse rotation way will give you positive front drive, problem is your car will not slowdown fast enough. you will be depending solely on the friction between the tires and the surface its on. there will be absolutely no brakes at all even when you let of throttle.
however your idea about cutting the exsiting Lazer front hub one way has its merits. however the problem will be the same, no brakes and reverse. i much prefer if you could use the ZX-R rear hub which is locked in position by set screw, that will work. i saw your CAD drawing, and i need to check properly where the parts sit first before i say anything about it.
also could you take a sharp pic from the side of the cut one way? i cant see if you still need the small bearing in it.

[Welshy40]

if you use a one way 14T pulley in a reverse rotation way will give you positive front drive, problem is your car will not slowdown fast enough. you will be depending solely on the friction between the tires and the surface its on. there will be absolutely no brakes at all even when you let of throttle.
however your idea about cutting the exsiting Lazer front hub one way has its merits. however the problem will be the same, no brakes and reverse. i much prefer if you could use the ZX-R rear hub which is locked in position by set screw, that will work. i saw your CAD drawing, and i need to check properly where the parts sit first before i say anything about it.
also could you take a sharp pic from the side of the cut one way? i cant see if you still need the small bearing in it.

The large bearing that the one way attaches o the gearbox is still there and the hub still has the oneway bearing molded in. I will try to cut that away as well but doesnt leave much room to hold the big bearing.

[alcyon]

The large bearing that the one way attaches o the gearbox is still there and the hub still has the oneway bearing molded in. I will try to cut that away as well but doesnt leave much room to hold the big bearing.
no dont cut that away. you need to hold to big bearing in. just take a pic from the side and show me. anyway i still feel the one way wont work becuase the car wont have any brakes.

[alcyon]

Alcyon

Im at work so if you got the time the link is on here otherwise i will post it when i get home.

http://www.rc-race-and-drift-japan.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=91_152_153&products_id=2639

They look like these exactly but of course with 14 instead of 13 tooth

mvh Isobarik

found this they have em

http://www.myrcstation.com/webshaper/store/viewCat.asp?catID=110
i checked both, cant use them, one has a hub thats too long, and the belt width isnt wide enough, the other is a one way, how can you use a one way? no brakes at all.

[Welshy40]

I dont use brakes at all so kindof doesnt matter for me but do see your point and have a resolution.

That is the hyperclutch part thats basically a hub without the plate so will use that on mine, but will need a flat bit on the layshaft for the allen key to screw to. As this item is non existant any more the other item worth buying is the LA56 and cutting that down as that has an allen key section so you can bolt it to the layshaft so means that you will be able to brake and will work according to plan. :thumbsup:

[alcyon]

I dont use brakes at all so kindof doesnt matter for me but do see your point and have a resolution.

That is the hyperclutch part thats basically a hub without the plate so will use that on mine, but will need a flat bit on the layshaft for the allen key to screw to. As this item is non existant any more the other item worth buying is the LA56 and cutting that down as that has an allen key section so you can bolt it to the layshaft so means that you will be able to brake and will work according to plan. :thumbsup:

I still dont agree with you about the brakes. i understand you're not the type to apply brakes, i did drive like that 3 years ago with my touring cars when brushless had no boost or turbo. however you dont get what i am trying to say. even though you dont use brakes in the finger sense, but as soon as you let of the gas, your motor has some drag in it that will cause your spur gear to slow down, thus transferring this drag to your rear wheels,--if you use a front one way. That means your car will still slow down reasonably fast. If you were to use a reverse one way on the rear and a one way on the front, what will happen is when you let off the gas, the motors inherent drag will stop the spur gear from moving, becuase the rear pulley is freewheeling and has no friction against the shaft. so what will happen is your car will keep rolling, and it will keep rolling very very fast ! so fast that even when you turn the steering full lock your car will understeer terrbily. the reason you have a lot of turn in with the front one way is becuase the motors off throttle drag will slow down the rear pulley and the rear diff, rear wheel brakes if you will.

Ok since i am done explaining why the one way wont work, okay we can get to use LA-56.fact is i have an LA-56 with me right now. in order to use the b4 plate properly you need to cut off the LA-56 by 4.7mm. but you will also cut off the existing M3 tap hole for the setscrew, that means you have to re drill and re tap..maybe you and i could do that, but what about the rest of the Lazer freaks? i also found out something odd about the ZX-R layshaft and the ZX.
with the ZX, there is a 1mm gap between pulleys. with the ZX-R there is none. look at these 2 drawings.

pic 1. original ZX shaft assembly. note the important dimensions to place the pulley correctly so that it will line up with the diffs.
pic 2. My new ZX-B4 shaft asembly. notice i revised a few dimensions which was out by 0.5mm. i need to send you the revised drawing welshy.

ok i know you requested the layshaft so that you can use LA-56..i will do that for you, but also allow me to go ahead with the Misumi pulley design, and show the proposal to everyone to have a look.

[Welshy40]

I still dont agree with you about the brakes. i understand you're not the type to apply brakes, i did drive like that 3 years ago with my touring cars when brushless had no boost or turbo. however you dont get what i am trying to say. even though you dont use brakes in the finger sense, but as soon as you let of the gas, your motor has some drag in it that will cause your spur gear to slow down, thus transferring this drag to your rear wheels,--if you use a front one way. That means your car will still slow down reasonably fast. If you were to use a reverse one way on the rear and a one way on the front, what will happen is when you let off the gas, the motors inherent drag will stop the spur gear from moving, becuase the rear pulley is freewheeling and has no friction against the shaft. so what will happen is your car will keep rolling, and it will keep rolling very very fast ! so fast that even when you turn the steering full lock your car will understeer terrbily. the reason you have a lot of turn in with the front one way is becuase the motors off throttle drag will slow down the rear pulley and the rear diff, rear wheel brakes if you will.

Ok since i am done explaining why the one way wont work, okay we can get to use LA-56.fact is i have an LA-56 with me right now. in order to use the b4 plate properly you need to cut off the LA-56 by 4.7mm. but you will also cut off the existing M3 tap hole for the setscrew, that means you have to re drill and re tap..maybe you and i could do that, but what about the rest of the Lazer freaks? i also found out something odd about the ZX-R layshaft and the ZX.
with the ZX, there is a 1mm gap between pulleys. with the ZX-R there is none. look at these 2 drawings.

pic 1. original ZX shaft assembly. note the important dimensions to place the pulley correctly so that it will line up with the diffs.
pic 2. My new ZX-B4 shaft asembly. notice i revised a few dimensions which was out by 0.5mm. i need to send you the revised drawing welshy.

ok i know you requested the layshaft so that you can use LA-56..i will do that for you, but also allow me to go ahead with the Misumi pulley design, and show the proposal to everyone to have a look.

The zxr pulley has no gap as there is no thrust washer in between the pulleys, more of a solid alloy washer so is the reason why there is a difference between the ZX and R

Yes I notoced the LA56 will cut away the allen screw and redrilling is a pain for most so kindof see where your coming from.

In answer to your first question, if the drive train is really free and the belts are really loose then when you back off the power for a corner you get oversteer (your explanation is pretty much on the ball) but I like more steering so have 7.5 degrees on the front and means I dont really need to power into the corner as much as when you leave the apex and the car is really free so power or not its quick. My set up isnt there yet but when finished I aim to drive flat out down the straight and into the corner tight with no grip roll or issues, then it will be set up right (as I drove it in the 90's), but as with everything work is still needed to get this right.

Im having fun, and glad your on board as your layshaft design is going to take this car to a new level. :thumbsup:

[alcyon]

The zxr pulley has no gap as there is no thrust washer in between the pulleys, more of a solid alloy washer so is the reason why there is a difference between the ZX and R

Yes I notoced the LA56 will cut away the allen screw and redrilling is a pain for most so kindof see where your coming from.

In answer to your first question, if the drive train is really free and the belts are really loose then when you back off the power for a corner you get oversteer (your explanation is pretty much on the ball) but I like more steering so have 7.5 degrees on the front and means I dont really need to power into the corner as much as when you leave the apex and the car is really free so power or not its quick. My set up isnt there yet but when finished I aim to drive flat out down the straight and into the corner tight with no grip roll or issues, then it will be set up right (as I drove it in the 90's), but as with everything work is still needed to get this right.

Im having fun, and glad your on board as your layshaft design is going to take this car to a new level. :thumbsup:
yes lets take this car to a new level- the supersonic level :woot: . by the way thats a 80's euro dance tune by italian antonella.http://www.discogs.com/Antonella-Supersonic-Level/release/853928

kidding aside. tonight i will work out the alternative design with a seperate pulley, and i will also work on the LA-56 alternative within this week. is LA-56 easy to get these days?
i just got an idea, the LA-56 hub dia is 25mm, the B4 is 31mm. Associated now has the high torque yellow slipper pads that cover more surface area, compared to the white slipper pad, the yellow goes almost to the hub center. So my point is, why not use LA-56 unmodified, then on the outer end use the B4 plate? yes there is a difference in diameter but with the yellow slipper pad with larger surface area, this might not be an issue. what do you guys think? That means no hacking involved, just plug and play !

[Welshy40]

yes lets take this car to a new level- the supersonic level :woot: . by the way thats a 80's euro dance tune by italian antonella.http://www.discogs.com/Antonella-Supersonic-Level/release/853928

kidding aside. tonight i will work out the alternative design with a seperate pulley, and i will also work on the LA-56 alternative within this week. is LA-56 easy to get these days?
i just got an idea, the LA-56 hub dia is 25mm, the B4 is 31mm. Associated now has the high torque yellow slipper pads that cover more surface area, compared to the white slipper pad, the yellow goes almost to the hub center. So my point is, why not use LA-56 unmodified, then on the outer end use the B4 plate? yes there is a difference in diameter but with the yellow slipper pad with larger surface area, this might not be an issue. what do you guys think? That means no hacking involved, just plug and play !

I found that the LA56 kept slipping no matter how hard you tightened the slipper with LA56 and those pads with my spur gear. I ended up using the ZX slipper system with the reverse one way hub and the two big silver metal washer plates from the ZX to hold the spur and high torque pads in place. may work correctly though if the shaft is built correctly so worth a try to start with and if no success we can then work on the layshaft attachment.

[adam lancia]

Also keep in mind that Associated is coming out with the VTS slipper assembly (http://www.teamassociated.com/parts/details/91175/), might be something to look into in order to account for the reduced slipper area on the inside of the spur if using la56.

[Welshy40]

If we design the layshaft correctly and it works with la56 then great but im doubting it will due to past experiences, however id love to prove myself wrong.

[alcyon]

If we design the layshaft correctly and it works with la56 then great but im doubting it will due to past experiences, however id love to prove myself wrong.
anyway, lets just wait until my machinist and yours says if they could do the first proposal. Looks like we got no choice but to take it slow. also about the rear pulley, i only see making a new pulley ourselves the only way out of the problem, because the pulley must be 9.5mm width or less, and the misumi pulley is 11mm width.

Also since one of my B4 plate is with the machinist, tehre is a buggy race coming on the next sunday 25th. can someone borrow 1 plate to me to race my optima mid cause my order with infernosonly wont come on time.
i also need to buy a ZX gear cover. seems TBG is not selling anything now. Anyone else makes one? For the blue steering parts, do i need to put a bushing or a bearing in them? Is tehre any close up pics of the assembly?

i have to mention also if i dont race this coming buggy race, it might be the last one the local shops will organise. EP offroad died in 1995 over here and just made agreat comeback end of last year, but participation is dwindling again. If i dont lend my support it could be game over for buggy racing here, thats what my hobby shop guy told me.

[adam lancia]

I'd help with whatever I could but all of my stuff is in storage in Germany and I'm in Spain... I hope you get the parts you need.

[alcyon]

I'd help with whatever I could but all of my stuff is in storage in Germany and I'm in Spain... I hope you get the parts you need.
thanks for your offer. I am trying to get the race postponed to a later date with a few other racers, lets see how it goes.

[Welshy40]

Anyone got spare alloy pivot blocks? Mine are bent.:thumbdown:

[bigfella]

hi everyone

has anybody got an la31 the bracket that fits on the rear gearbox

cheers

[alcyon]

I was looking through my old photo albums and found a few pics of my BITD and my friends Lazer ZX. So i am sharing these pics with you guys. The earliest pictures are from 1991, showing the blue Lazer, and the red lazer pics are from 1994 to 2001.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/Vintage11.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/Vintage3.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/Vintage13.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/Vintage14.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x87/alcyon2sp/Vintage2.jpg

[kek23k]

Sweet, always good to see old pics from back in the day :D

I think I might have one of my Lazer somewhere, will have a dig around :D

[Welshy40]

Looking good.

Alcyon, just a quick question regarding your mid layshaft conversion. If you are going down the route and doing the pin hole for the pulley are you going to copy the design of the Mid for the layshaft holder that fits inside the outer bearing. Your design is rather unique and think that may be the option if you can locate the correct pulley.

Thinking about having a pulley molded from plastic, I am a bit scheptical on this as why did Kyosho make the hub metal with the grooves, considering they did copy the rest of the mids design over so think the original prototypes couldnt handle the power and broke the mid style pulleys as the pin would rip through it. Just my thought on this.

I will also once I have a cost for the layshaft, will be asking how much for the pulleys out of alloy, with a pin style design on the back so we can go down that route. I will also see if they can do the normal out of alloy as well.

[alcyon]

Looking good.

Alcyon, just a quick question regarding your mid layshaft conversion. If you are going down the route and doing the pin hole for the pulley are you going to copy the design of the Mid for the layshaft holder that fits inside the outer bearing. Your design is rather unique and think that may be the option if you can locate the correct pulley.

Thinking about having a pulley molded from plastic, I am a bit scheptical on this as why did Kyosho make the hub metal with the grooves, considering they did copy the rest of the mids design over so think the original prototypes couldnt handle the power and broke the mid style pulleys as the pin would rip through it. Just my thought on this.

I will also once I have a cost for the layshaft, will be asking how much for the pulleys out of alloy, with a pin style design on the back so we can go down that route. I will also see if they can do the normal out of alloy as well.
about copying the Mid layshaft, not really actually, i was thinking of more copying the Kawada SV-10 layshaft, which also uses a pin. i only intend to use a 1mm pin like the Kawada, not like the Mid which uses a 2mm pin. The only problem with the plastic hub i think would be the grub screw tapping. After a few times of loosening and tightening, i think the thread will probably strip. i beleive plastic is not the way to go. i still have not been able to find a suitable pulley and i think a machined pulley designed by myself to copy the Lazers original pulley width sie, except it will have a 4mm center hole and a 1mm long slot to let the 1mm pin go through to key the pulley.

[isobarik]

Alcyon

regardin the 14 tooth pulley how much is 69 RM ????

mvh Isobarik

[oosh123]

Alcyon

regardin the 14 tooth pulley how much is 69 RM ????

mvh Isobarik

I believe RM is malaysian dollar.

22.60 USD

[alcyon]

I believe RM is malaysian dollar.

22.60 USD
yep thats right !

[isobarik]

Thanks oosh123

remember me to transfer the pesetas for the belts.

Alcyon

are you going to visit the shop in an near future ???

mvh Isobarik

[alcyon]

Thanks oosh123

remember me to transfer the pesetas for the belts.

Alcyon

are you going to visit the shop in an near future ???

mvh Isobarik
i dont plan to, i heard about it, but i have never been there. if you need to find out about something i could go there if you like. been wanting to see that place with my own eyes.

[isobarik]

i dont plan to, i heard about it, but i have never been there. if you need to find out about something i could go there if you like. been wanting to see that place with my own eyes.

Good shall just decide if i want the pulleys and you should have an excuse.

Welsh tomorrow at my way to work i will ask the LHS what happened to the LA-63´s

mvh isobarik

[Welshy40]

Cheers mate

[bigfella]

has anybody got an LA31 forsale?

cheers